WE don't necessarily judge greatness by the number of rings a person has. People who are unable or unwilling to make a capacious comparison of the two players might, but plenty of us actually think about it. Signed, Robert Horry, Jim Loscutoff, Ron Harper, John Stockton, Elgin Baylor, Barry Sanders, Dan Marino, etc, etc, etc. There is a laundry list of examples to show that ring count, in any sport, is about the TEAMS that won them. Using it as the sole factor to compare individuals is lazy at best.
better fantasy player? wtf does that mean? as a laker fan you hated olajuwon more than duncan? why am i not surprised? duncan had a better team around him and beat you. other than the sampson years and title years, lakers always had a better team than dream. of course you would hate duncan more than dream. BABE RUTH DID NOT PLAY AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE OR INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION. HIS PLAYING CAREER WAS FROM 1914 TO 1935!!!! 1914 TO 1935. PLEASE GTFO WITH THAT BULLSHIET. You can list all of his gaudy stats accrued in the freaking early 20s and 30s, that's not gonna change the fact that ruth did not play against black people or international competition. STOP GLORIFYING THE PAST TO DISHONEST PROPORTIONS IN ORDER TO PRESERVE HISTORY. His fat ass would not crack triple A if he played today. SMDH.....
There are two many fake rockets fans on here Zboy. Regardless of how many rings Duncan wins, we have witnessed someone who is better and who played center not power forward . In fact, Duncan wouldnt even be #2 On the rockets he would be behind Moses .
and Jordon gifted Hakeem w 2 rings as a result of his 2-yr flirtation w baseball, no? Jordan > Hakeem > T Duncan
Jordan's Bulls were swept by Shaq's Magic, with Jordan playing out of his mind. He only missed 1 year playing baseball. Hakeem Olajuwon? Come on now. There is no comparison. Timmy is light years away from ever being close to that good. I'm not convinced that Timmy is a better overall player than Kevin Garnett.
Um...in the early 90s, the lakers were sporting a starting lineup that consisted of nick van smack at pg, Eddie jones at Sg, club ced ceballos at Sg, elden Campbell at pf, and vlade at c. Granted, I loved this team, we were really a one and done team in the Jordan intermission years when rockets won their titles. So to say the dream never had teams that could compete with lakers is just wrong. Fact is, the lakers and rockets haven't been good at the same time too often while Duncan and Kobe had parallel careers. That is why I hate Duncan more. But I have to give him props on willing his team to 4 titles dragging late first rounders disguised as superstars with him. Watch how well the spurs do when Duncan retires.
Jordan came back in march so that's not really a full season when Orlando swept them. It would have been nice if the rockets got to validate their titles with a victory over the bulls, but such is life. Seriously though, Duncan is a true winner. I hate him as much as the next guy, but you have to give him props.
the '95 Bulls weren't contenders, with or without Jordan because of the loss of Grant to Orlando, that team would never have gotten far (Shaq and Grant basically raped and pillaged their front court, didn't matter how well Jordan played, and he did play exceptionally well, he averaged something like 35 ppg on above normal efficiency, individually it was one of his better playoff series). Of course then they added Rodman, and their defense became great to an all-time level.
Hakeem was much better in his prime? Hakeem's best 4 seasons combined(1992-93 to 1995-96): 26.0 PER, 50.6 WS, .199 WS/48, .566 TS%, 8.4 ORB%, 24.1 DRB%, 16.8 AST%, 12.2 TOV% Duncan's best 4 seasons combined(2001-02 to 2004-05): 27.0 PER, 58.6 WS, .250 WS/48, .556 TS%, 10.0 ORB%, 27.1 DRB%, 18.0 AST%, 11.8 TOV% Hakeem got edge in scoring efficiency on slighy higher usage(30.5 USG% to 28.9 USG%). I didn't include defensive stats, because they are often times meaningless. Blocks doesn't even give you possesion while getting a steal is just as good as forcing missed shot and getting a rebound. <PRE>Rockets defensive rating per year: 1992-93: 5th(105.2 points per 100 possesions) Pace: 94.4 possesions per game 1993-94: 2nd(101.4 points per 100 possesions) Pace: 95.0 possesions per game 1994-95:12th(107.4 points per 100 possesions) Pace: 94.2 possesions per game 1995-96:14th(107.4 points per 100 possesions) Pace: 93.2 possesions per game Spurs defensive rating per year: 2001-02: 2nd(99.7 points per 100 possesions) Pace: 90.0 possesions per game 2002-03: 3rd(99.7 points per 100 possesions) Pace: 90.0 possesions per game 2003-04: 1st(94.1 points per 100 possesions) Pace: 89.2 possesions per game 2004-05: 1st(98.8 points per 100 possesions) Pace: 88.9 possesions per game </PRE> Hakeem only edge was TS%. League average TS% in 1991-92 to 1994-95 was .535. League average TS% in 2001-02 to 2004-05 was .521. <PRE> League averages of TS%, eFG% and assisted vs. unassisted shots Season TS% eFG% Ast/FG Unassisted 2004-05 0.530 0.482 0.593 0.407 2003-04 0.516 0.471 0.609 0.391 2002-03 0.519 0.473 0.602 0.398 2001-02 0.520 0.477 0.605 0.395 1994-95 0.543 0.500 0.616 0.384 1993-94 0.528 0.485 0.621 0.379 1992-93 0.536 0.491 0.607 0.393 1991-92 0.532 0.487 0.593 0.407 </PRE> Duncan(.556 TS%) was 0.035 above league average while Hakeem(.566 TS%) was 0.029 above league average. Which means Duncan was actually more efficient scorer. Better playoffs/finals run: Both won without a single all-star on their team. Hakeem averaged 26.9 points, 9.1 boards, 3.9 blocks and 3.6 assists(27.1 PER) in 1994 finals. Duncan averaged 24.2 points, 17.0 boards, 5.3 blocks and 5.3 assists(32.0 PER - second best PER of all time in finals) in 2003 finals. Duncan vs. Hakeem: Rings: 4 > 2 Finals MVP: 3 > 2 MVP: 2 > 1 All-NBA first team: 10 > 6 All-Defensive first team: 8 > 5 Yet you all think Hakeem is better and it's not even close. There is no objective measure to prove that.
Jordan had better supporting cast for his title runs than Hakeem. Pippen is better than anyone including Drexler on the Houston team aside from Hakeem. Both Horace Grant and Rodman were way better than Thorpe or Horry. And he had Ron Harper for 3 titles.
I definitely agree. Michael Jordan really isn't any better than Kobe. He'd be able to get up points against bad defenses, but the smarter teams led by Thibs or Pop would cut him off from getting to the rim and drawing fouls. Given Jordan's poor 3 point shooting by the standards of an elite wing, teams would just give him space and thus limit his options. Sure, he could post up, but Kobe has that fadeaway in the post too.
it was all kind of silly (really comparing an offensive stat like PER in a period where he won 2 DPOY's? really?), until he compared hakeem's matchup with a prime patrick ewing, with tim duncan's against the nets in 03, then it went from silly to stupid, this is why idiots shouldn't be allowed near statistics, and that includes the rudy gay idiot.
Your facts are incorrect. Jordan was in the league and the playoffs when Hakeem earned his second ring. Please learn the facts in this instance. Jordan's playoff numbers were up in '95 yet his team was knocked out of the playoffs by a team that Hakeem and his Rockets swept for the championship.
Wrong. Jordan's playoff numbers were above his playoff averages in 95. Duncan is a winner, but he's not even close to being as good as Hakeem Olajuwon.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/n_-9Z2LF4fI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Man....I miss the Dream!
how many times in duncan's career did people think, man no matter how well he plays, his team has no chance, because that was essentially half of hakeem's career, heck one of the years, in a series he put up 37/17, 64% TS, 39.0 PER, 2.8 bpg, 2.3 spg and still lost in 4. After Sampson went down, our teams were ****, and they were for 5 or 6 years.
its not only poor management. Its also about making your teammates better, and i think in that category, duncan had a big edge over dream.
