Olajuwon-Shaq debate [espnradio]

And Hakeem's is a travel...

 

Man...reading threads like this always makes me want to watch an old game from the 95 WCFs again.

Damn, I miss Dream.

 

You must be from Seattle.

 

But seriously, every star in the NBA gets that extra step, Shaq included. But guys like Shaq and Malone, on top of that, also get to lower their shoulder into people like linebackers.

Still, I don't begrudge Shaq that, considering all of the punishment he has to take and all of the floppers out there. The NBA is really trying to take the game away from big men and turn it into Euro-ball.

 

Doesn't Robinson have 2 titles?

 

You mean the titles Tim Duncan won? They have 1 1/2.

 

Yes, Dream destroyed Shaq head-to-head for a NBA championship, but Shaq-Fu has always won their rap battles. Shaq rocks the mic, fools!

And let's not forget Shaq's mad acting skillz. Sure, Dream could put up 25 and 12 while fasting for a month, but Shaq was freakin' Kazaam! He came out of a lamp!

 

Thus, the lower FG %. Dream could knock down the mid-range from the beginning of his NBA career. People who didn't see him play then just don't realize that. He simply got better at it as his career progressed. Don't go by the year to year stats you'll find here at Clutch's excellent historic Rockets profiles... think of the percentages as also a year to year extension of his range. That's not reflected there. And that's my opinion, of course.

Picking him over Shaq, starting with their first year, would be absurdly easy for me. The progress he made while at UH was astounding. The progress he made from season one, through the end of the regular season of his 2nd year in the NBA was equally amazing.

God, what a player. Will there ever be anyone like him? I can imagine another Shaq, also a great player, before I can imagine us seeing a Dream equivalent. We were damned lucky to have followed him through college and his NBA career, all in Houston. (and I agree with someone above... Toronto doesn't count!)

I hope that someday we can convince him to get more involved with the Rockets. Yao could really use his mentoring. I know it would mean the world to the big fella.

 

I don't think this is really a debate for any intelligent fan. If you don't think Hakeem is the more complete player than you are a fool. Don't let the ESPN and marketing propaganda fool you, watch the film, study the moves, you will see who the greater player is. It isn't even a question.

"But Shaq was so dominant....." that's all i ever hear, it's bullocks. I mean don't get me wrong, all those years battling Vlade Divac and Brad Miller prove Shaq's greatness. But even Alonzo Mourning(a good player don't get me wrong, better defender than Shaq) can claim to have taken a first team All-NBA selection from Shaq in his prime.

Shaqs defense was weak, you want an example of Shaqs dominance, try this:

DPOY: 0
Blocked Shots title: 0
All Defensive First Team: 0

The frontlines Hakeem has battled throughout his career are just mindboggling. Parish/Bird/Mchale? Jabbar? Robinson? Ewing? Mutombo? Zo? O'Neal?

Even guys like Kevin Willis were beasts back in the day, the level of competition Dream competed against was incredible.

I don't really use the Hakeem vs Shaq '95 finals series to prove anything, Shaq was way too young to make that a proper assessment.

Do you realise the only players Shaq ever challenges to block shots are point guards attempting lay-ups? And what does he do once he sends their shots into the 4th row? Raise his arms like he's the king. Big Fella, try stepping into a REAL shot, you might get dunked on but that's OK, i will respect you more.

Hakeem makes great play after great play, but his demeanour is quiet, respectful, yet telling---Shaq celebrates his big dunks with what i call the "Fat Walk" (you know that waddling thing he does?). This doesn't prove Hakeem was a better player, but why Shaq is considered greater? We wouldn't call Ali the greatest if he didn't remind us everyday would we?

Take two players, one is more skilled, more athletic, a better shooter, better defender, better clutch player, smarter....and draw your own conclusion.

Hakeem Olajuwon.

 

I wonder how Hakeem would have played with Wade, Walker, Payton, Warrick, Zo, Posey...d@mn that team is good. Good young/old mix. Good leadership. Great wing defense.

They are the total package. They will beat the Pistons (who are awesome in their own right) and then absolutely CRUSH the pansies, or the Suns.

 

Simple...

Shaq is a gigantic freak of nature that is bigger than any of the centers he has faced, and simply just overpowered the opposition.

Hakeem was a finesse bigman with footwork like a guard. Hakeem was truely the GREATEST center ever!!

I think everyone here agrees. If Shaq weighed a hundred pounds less, he would be just another 7 footer. Yeah, he's quick for his size, but no B-Ball skills at all, the only attribute is his weight, height, minimal quickness.

 

While i agree with everything you said. I think Shaq is a great ball handler for his size, but definately would be lacking in offense if he were just a 7ft, 250lb guy.

 

Shaq's regular season stats (at least offensively) trump Hak's. But the Playoff numbers tell a different story:

G---GS-MPG-FG%-3P%-FT%-OFF-DEF-RPG-APG-SPG-BPG--TO---PF-PPG
186 186 39.2 .564 .000 .509 4.30 8.00 12.30 2.9 0.56 2.23 3.08 3.50 26.0 Shaq
145 140 39.6 .528 .222 .719 3.20 7.90 11.20 3.2 1.69 3.26 2.92 3.90 25.9 Hak

Difference in PPG is negligible. Shaq's fg% slightly better. Hak's ft% way better. Shaq's RPG better (with the big edge in offensive rebounding); Hak has more assists with fewer turnovers. So, offensively they're about even. Defensively, it's not even close: difference in defensive rebounding is negligible, while Hak's SPG and BPG are far ahead of Shaq's.

What's more important? play-offs or regular season? --- and consider the level of talent at the center position that Dream had to deal with in the Playoffs .... hmmm .... who's the better player now?

I'll take Dream.

 

I like Shaq's play even if his crutch move is banging into the chest and letting the 3 basketball decide.

He has great handles and court vision for a guy his size. A guy his size can range from linebackers or Stanley Roberts. Shaq makes it look easy.

That said, Dream's accomplishments came during the golden age of the NBA. You had several great players to choose from in that era. It's like judging a Miss Universe Pagent vs. Miss USA. Competition does everything to perception.

 

Shaq has had the greater career. And I think Shaq in his prime (in 2000) was was better than Hakeem in his prime. He was just an unstoppable offensive force.

 

The way I see it:

Dream is way better than Shaq.

I'm biased though, I enjoyed watching skill and grace over brute force and ugly free throw bricking. The way Shaq plays is just not good for the game. Now we rarely see big guys with post game and some good footworks.

 

It's so easy for almost all of us to agree... about at least one thing. Enjoyed reading the posts.

Still, it had to happen. It always does. The only thing in life that can possibly make me flip out worse than tinman on steroids and 20 cups of coffee is the following:

mmesser, you get great credit for the greatest center ever comment, but the finesse BS that keeps being repeated here should be grounds for permanent banishment.

Other than Shaq no one was more physical than Dream was. He played inside his entire career, but for about the first 3 years he was perhaps the meanest SOB all-star in the NBA. Accidents did happen, but there were a few guys you didn't want them to happen against and Dream was one of those guys.

After the infamous elbow-to-the-face on Paultz in Dream's first year, Rudy was assigned to talk to him about The Punch because management and a lot of Rocket's fans were really uncomfortable with the level of retaliation that Dream would so quickly get to.

There was a quote from someone that's been stated here before that sums it up. I can't remember it verbatim and I can't remember who said it. I think it was an Eastern Conference star who was asked about Moses (who was known to be vicious) and he (somewhat organically) brought up the difference between he and Dream.

The gist was no one messed with Moses, but Dream was scarier because you never knew if he was going to block your shot and if he chose to, he'd smash your face with the ball and make you crack your head on the court. Dream did that a lot - legal plays that are flagrant 2 fouls now - but he did it to just about everyone who wasn't a center.

There was a code back then among the behemoths and they had their ways of settling things amongst themselves. Olajuwon was not any less adamant about sending messages to smaller guys who came in the lane then other big guys. He was just quicker, and often he'd catch guys at bad angles. But sometimes...

Dream almost always acted innocent, sometimes what he did seemed to scare him. There was a block against Jordan in '85 or '86 that was purposefully brutal that I remember but they were both up so high and going so fast that MJ's "thud" couldn't even be celebrated. After the game Jordan simply said "it was a clean block". Dream said: "he already had about 10 points in the paint". Ouch.

There was a bad one against Clyde in the Summit that became comical because he was in Dream's face for the rest of the game. He knew what Olajuwon did and Dream couldn't stop laughing as Drexler kept ranting. Clyde probably followed Hakeem home that night and kept b****ing until they both fell asleep.

Yes I know Hakeem became a devout Muslim and cut out the malevolence in his game, but he was always a very physical player who loved contact
and thrived on it.

If people want to equivocate the poetry and beauty of Dream's game to finesse that's your choice. But those that do should educate themselves if they consider themselves Rockets fans, because you obviously missed out on a lot of incredible stuff.

End rant. Until next time. Really didn't mean to offend anyone. Er, bye...

 

I need to see this block.

 

I would be happy to have either one on my team, and I hope in 10 years we are arguing whether Yao is better.



DD