I see your point on this RM95, unfortunately I will have to agree with updawg, the pickins are mighty slim plus, Plummer and Kuby have chemistry and apparently have trust and respect of each others abilities. That alone will go further than some on this BBS would care to think about. I think this will be a good fit for both sides. Probably can get him for 3-4M a year with no more than a 3 yr contract. Potentially not a bad move at all. I mean if not Plummer who do you go with? Culpepper? More than likely he would want BIG money and a long-term deal of at least 5 years. Will he be healthy enough to compete? Will he ever be the same player that he once was? This move would hamstring us worse so that's not a smart move. More money, greater commitment. Huard? He did well with KC filling in for Trent Green last year but, outside of that he really hasn't done much so would he be a "flash in the pan" type player? Garcia? He's shown some skills and he definitely has the guts to play QB in the NFL but, he would probably command more bucks if available, because of him spearheading that remarkable run for the Eagles to an unlikely postseason berth when it looked like they were dead in the water for the season. So, based upon that sampling Plummer seems the most logical, the smartest, the least intrusive move of all the possible contestants. Just a thought ...
the plummer situation truly fascinates me. here's a guy who, by nearly every single measure we have for a QB, was mediocre for five years in arizona. sure, they won a playoff game; he also threw 20 interceptions that year to 17 touchdowns. he didn;t exactly pack for hawaii after the cards were eliminated from the postseason. he went to denver in the 6th year of his career, and, depending on your perspective, landed on a better team and/or with better coaches, among them gary kubiak, and seemed to really, if not flourish, certainly reboot his career... does this not sound familiar to anyone else? is it not in any way, shape or form making any of you stop - if just for a second - and wonder...? reconsider...? plummer's 5th season; last with arizona: 284/530 (53.6%); 2,972 (5.61); 18/20; 36 sacks; 6 fumbles lost; 65.7 rating carr's 5th season; last (?) with houston: 302/442 (68.3%); 2,765 (6.26); 11/12; 40 sacks; 7 fumbles lost; 82.1 rating i wonder if denver boards raged to the degree these have at the thought of brining plummer on board? i mean, isn't jake plummer the poster child for what can happen to a QB if given better surroundings? or do some people really believe plummer just up and got better in year six? that had he stayed in arizona, he would have posted significantly improved numbers? or did better coaching and a better team mean the difference between the 65.7 rating he posted his final year in arizona and the 91.2 he posted his first year in denver? to me, plummer is the reason to bring carr BACK, not get rid of him. why invest money and potential personnel in a guy when you have a younger version of him already on your roster? it makes no sense to me at all. none.
Man, you're almost convincing me. I think for my sanity, I want Carr gone. You know if he stays, the first incomplete pass he throws will result in boos. The fans have made up their mind. There's no way Carr will be able to succeed in Houston.
carr succeeding has nothing to do with fans booing. if carr stays and plays well he will be supported.
Simple. Because what you're hoping MIGHT happen with Carr already DID happen with Plummer. Magical transformations 6 years into a career are fairly rare and unlikely. Saying "it happened with Plummer, so why not Carr" is unrealistic and unlikely. The best you're hoping for is that Carr becomes the new Plummer. If you can just get the actual new Plummer anyway, why not do it?
Because history has shown that Plummer isn't any better than Carr when the talent around them is similar. I think it plays into it somewhat. When you have no room for error with the fans or media, I can see where the pressure would get to you. It happens all the time in all sports. That's why I think they should move David Carr regardless.
So what? History has shown that Plummer is good with good talent around him. It has shown no such thing with Carr.
Do you think we'll be competing for the playoffs next season? I honestly don't. If you don't think so, it doesn't make a lot of sense to advocate bringing in a guy who's just as bad as the guy you already have when he's not on a good team.
Possibly - franchises turn around instantly in today's NFL. You still haven't answered the question. Why would you prefer someone who may or may not be able to be Plummer instead Plummer himself?
How do you know he's still as bad in those circumstances? He's had 4 years of experience since then. You think he learned nothing during that period and will just revert back to Arizona Jake if he came here? And if so, what's the harm? He'd be just as bad as Carr, and you've gained or lost nothing. If he did actually learn something or work well with Kubiak, you've improved. Why is that bad?
speaking for myself, plummer has reached his ceiling; he goes nowhere but lateral or down. rare to get better in year six? well, how's about year 10? i think carr has more tools than plummer, therefore, if given a "denver in 2003" situation, his results would be better than plummer's.
He's so great that a team with a winning record last season felt the need to bench him for a rookie. If he's as bad as Carr, you've lost nothing? Um, only a couple years when you could've been developing another QB.
So you don't believe Houston plans to improve their talent over the next year or two? That's the point. You're simply hoping that since Plummer improved with more talent, Carr would do the same. Carr could just as likely be Tim Couch and simply not have it. When you can get the guy who you're hoping Carr might be and take the question mark out of the equation, why not do it?
We've already discussed that this is between Carr or Plummer. If you have other options, go for it. This was within a discussion of keeping Carr as opposed to going after Plummer. In that scenario, you're not developing another QB anyway.
well......... LOL. no, of course. so you want it to get better for plummer and not carr? so that by the time the talent is "good," it's time to find a QB since plummer'll be 34-35 and well past his prime? because, as i've stated previously, i don't want to spend a single resource to bring plummer here. imo, what if carr is tim couch? what have i lost? nothing; he's signed anyway.
