Okay, here's your first test GM prodigies? Try to put these players in Rock Uni's...

I gotta agree that I LIKE Lewis!!

Mind you, I don't like the fact that Fizer is only 6'7.. I wouldn't take him if we didn't get Lewis as well.... sounds wierd, but we need some intimidation in the paint and Lewis has great height and blocks a few shots which would more than compensate for Fizer's lack of height.

But if I could only get 1 of the three I'd be busting my hump to get Croshere - sure he's "a SF who can create mismatches", but he can play pretty rough and tough defensively too - and he CAN abuse a lot of PF's offensively too!!

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huh?!

vince

Croshere never played Center, not even in the playoffs like you mentioned. He's a PF and is even projected as a better SF. It would be meaningless to acquire Rashard Lewis if Croshere ends up here. plus, getting all three?!?! get real!



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Ostertag for Three!!!!!

 

Fizer would not be a good fit for this team IMO. A few things that bother me about Fizer is his height(6'7), he's not a great rebounder, his defense is not that good, and I don't think he's fast enough in the open court to run with this team.

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You ain't gotta like me, you just mad cause I tell it how it is, and you tell it how it might be.

 

I agree with DrNuegebauer about Croshere and Collier!
I think that is exactly what Rudy has up his sleeve, I believe in Rudy, he will get something done.This draft sucked with talent at our position, so he did the best that he could with our options,while keeping the current chemistry together(Cat)! By getting something that the Pacers want and need, Rudy drafted for the Pacers,(for Croshere). and if we can't get Croshere we can use this guy anyway, With this pick Rudy has two options with Collier!!!
That in it self shows Rudy's great vision and patience. /Collier for Croshere+Drew./
I have noticed that all the talk is about Langi and not as much about Collier. Collier is trade material!


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[This message has been edited by carlit0 (edited July 05, 2000).]

 

New Jack:

A few things that bother me about Fizer is his height(6'7)

The latest measurements show Fizer to be 6'9.

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treasurer of the moochie norris fan club

 

Guys, wake up, we already have Fizer. His names Kenny Thomas. They will both be good offensively, but will never be good defenders. They are too short and lack the quickness to guard SF's or to work the double team. I like them both but I would rather pass on Fizer. KT is great bench material and will always be effective going against the other teams back-ups.

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"Stranger things have happened, but none stranger than this" - Commentator after a parachutist landed in the ring of a Holyfield fight

 

Thomas IMO is a better rebounder and is a better fit for the up tempo game of the Rockets, although Thomas is not the answer to the power forward position either.

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You ain't gotta like me, you just mad cause I tell it how it is, and you tell it how it might be.

 

Fizer is not 6'9", first of all he is listed at 6'8", and the tons of measurements they did on him at his workouts were around 6'6" and 6'7". Plus Fizer would just clog up the lane like Barkley did and not allow Stevie, Shandon, and Cuttino to drive or slash as much. Also Fizer can't run like Croshere or Lewis.

 

A couple of quick points. First, on the Fizer height thing try to be consistent or show some listing somewhere. Please don't just say I hear that he only listed at 6-6 or 6-7. Nobody really cares if thats what you hear. We want to know what is he actually listed at. The Chicago pre-draft camp had him listed at 6-9. But to be consistent, I will just use nba.com numbers. WHile certainly these arent always correct, they are at least consistent. IT lists Fizer at 6-8, 250. For comparisons sake Kenyon Martin is 6-9, 230 and Stromile Swift is 6-9, 225. Now for all of you who says he isnt big enough to play PF I htink your nuts. He is barely shorter than the 2 sure thing PF's picked ahead of him and has a good 20-30 pounds on both (muscle, not fat). He DOES have the size to play PF. Sure you can say he is too shortor short and unathletic. But this just isnt the case. Have you guys seen many of the Iowa State games? I suggest you go back and watch them. FIzer shows just as much athleticism as Martin does (not quite as much as Swift though). TO me, it is a perfect combination of size,strength, and athleticism.

MArcus Fizer is not the same thing as Kenny Thomas. He is far and away the better player. HE is already more athletic, is taller, stronger, and quicker. Now youll say Kenny has a better shot and wont clog up the middle like FIzer will. Kenny shot under 40% last season and under 30% from the 3pt. line. Just because KT was the only "big man" we had willing to move out his game doesnt mean he has a good shot. Undoubtedly Fizers shot is just as consistent(most likely more so). Further, against most big time college players during the past season, FIzer held his own well and played good defense. Tall and lanky like Swift (who isnt that much taller to begin with) isnt gonna cut it against the like of Karl Malone or Brian Grant. Fizer represents a significant upgrade over Cato IMO.

I propose two trades

1.
Walt, KT, Carlos Rogers to Seatlle plus a little of the trade exception for Rashard LEwis and VIn BAker. As proposed in another thread, Seattle may want to package Baker as they are increasingly disappoined with him and a change of scenery might do him good fur us.

2.
Kelvin Cato, Bryce Drew, rest of trade exception to CHicago for Marcus Fizer and we take HErshey HAwkins and his large contract of their hands for the last year.


I think this would put us in fabulous shape coming into next year. In addition, we should still have some cap room as we are getting rid of both Cato's and Walt's contrat and Hakeem will retire.

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When I die I want to go peacefully like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in the back seat!

[This message has been edited by JayZ750 (edited July 05, 2000).]

 

He is 6'7 and 5/8", but he is 6'11" in heels.

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If you think Kenny Thomas is a better fit for this offense than Fizer is, I take it you haven't seen Fizer play. Fizer is around 2 inches taller, is TWICE the athlete KT is. A better outside shooter, and his low post game puts Kenny's to shame.

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The more lefties on your team, the better.
Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong?
Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.

 

I think the guy who said that Fizer is the same as KT was making the point that neither one is the answer at PF because they are both tiny little guys and provide no intimidation in the lane which thus reduces the ability of guys like Shandon to guard people because they've got to step off and give up a jumper for fear of being driven around and having easy baskets scored.


Offensively Fizer is a lot better than Thomas, but is he even as good a fit as Collier is? Does he draw the defense away from the basket as well to open up the lanes? It's not all about the fact that he's a great scorer, we need someone who WILL fit the system, and someone who will fit offensively and defensively.
In the rebounding department Thomas is better than Fizer too - KT averaged 10 boards a game in college, Fizer like 7, plus the fact that Fizer was the only player over 6'4 on his team would probably mean he SHOULD get more rebounds, but (from what I saw) he's not always forcing the issue rebounds-wise.
I've no doubt that Fizer is good, possibly the best player in the draft, but he's so wrong for the rockets and it would be SO wrong to trade Cato for him!!!!!!!!

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Also, Fizer is NOT 6'9. He measured that "with shoes on" just days after he had clocked in at 6'6 1/2 and concerns had been raised about his ability to play PF in the NBA. Maybe his agent organised a pair of super shoes to ensure that he still got drafted high? I just think it's funny that Fizer is the only player who got measured with his shoes on.....

Ask youself which height measurement you will believe? The 6'9 or several other measurements which have him between 6'6 or 6'7 ... if I was a scientist I would be disregarding the 6'9 as flawed data...

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JayZ750, Why would we want Fizer if we trade for Baker and Lewis? Baker wouldn't be happy sitting on the bench. And why would we pay him the ridiculous amount of money that he makes to sit on the bench. If we get Fizer and Baker, Baker and Fizer's fat butts would clog the whole lane, sure Stevie could jump over them, but I'm not too sure about Mobes and Shandon.

 

Most everyone's height was WITH shoes. Moiso's 7 feet was when he had shoes on.

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The more lefties on your team, the better.
Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong?
Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.

 

Height is not necessarily the determining factor in what makes a good post player. Just look at what Chuckles did at 6' 4" or so. Or what Robert Horry has done at 6' 10". Fizer is a big strong guy, and he's super tenacious inside. I still can't believe the Clippers took a chance and passed him up. It would serve them right if the Bulls shipped him somewhere else. If I thought the Rockets had any other options at the 5, any other options at all, I'd send them Cato without blinking. Unless Kelvin has mysteriously developed a consistent shot or two over the offseason.

 

Special Patrol, Chuckster is one of a kind. Charles defied all odds in becoming probably the best rebounding PF outside of Dennis Rodman ever at 6'4". Charles is one of the best PFs ever. Who says that Fizer is the next Barkley. Yes Fizer is a little taller, but I don't know if FIzer has the heart or desire Barkley had.

 

Admittedly, Charles was a bit of an anomaly. But my point is that whether Fizer is 6' 9", 6'8", or what have you, he's well suited to what he does. He's got a good post game, and he rebounds well. I'm not necessarily comparing him to the Chuckster, but his game is similar. I might go so far as to call him Mo Taylor with an attitude though, and that would be a significant upgrade for either the Clips or the Rockets.

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Patrol Group, I don't Know if Fizer is a good fit to the run and gun style the Rockets play. I think he might be too slow to run with the Stevie, and doesn't rebound enough to start fast breaks.

 

No, Fizer is not terribly fleet of foot, but personnel really dictates the style of play. I could see Fizer and Francis running a sweet two-man game ala (dare I say it?) Stockton and Malone. You could afford to have a guy like Collier out around the three-point line, drawing the opposing center out. And Mobley and Anderson in motion, waiting for the feed, cutting to the basket. Or you could use Mobley with Fizer, and have the other team trying to chase Francis around. Assuming, of course, that Fizer's game translates to the pros, which is yet to be seen. I just really think that strength in the post is more important than height, unless you're asking a guy to block shots. Pointless speculation though, I doubt that the Rockets will end up with Fizer. I expect him to end up with the Clips, but after the draft this year, I wouldn't try to predict anything.

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