Ok so do we give Tmac another year, or shop him this summer?

It's not even debatable, AFAIC. Iverson and McGrady have two of the most misleading individual statistics in the NBA.

Do you remember how terribly Iverson shot under Larry Brown? And that was even without any injuries. He's just not that good.

 

They actually upped it to 25%, so its even easier these days.

 

I wouldn't want Iverson as anything more than a role player at this point in his career, but he did carry his team to the finals, while TMac is still looking to get to the 2nd round for the first time. Both were in the east at that time so a weaker conference isn't much excuse, and it isn't like the Sixers supporting cast was some incredibly talented team.

 

iverson had larry brown
tmac had doc rivers (see doc rivers can't even close out a team with 37 wins in the playoffs with a stacked celts team?)

iverson had the DPOY in deke (a deke in his prime)
tmac had declerq

iverson had 6th man of the yr
tmac had pat garrity

yes it was a weak conference. but tmac's supporting cast then was weaker than weak.

 

Unless he demands a trade or leaves, Tracy McGrady will retire a Houston Rocket.

 

Actually, it is much of an excuse as that was arguably THE very worst conference in the history of the NBA. ANY of the Rockets team McGrady has been on would have sleepwalked their way to the finals in that conference if they played in the Sixers' stead. McGrady was playing his first year as a Magic, with a garbage coach, and just a complete garbage lineup other than PG that season. McGrady was almost literally single-handedly responsible for the best season that team ever had ('03) as his second option was a rookie Drew Gooden. Iverson had the only type of lineup he can win with in '01: people who don't want to shoot unless they find an opening on the weak side, and people who LOVE doing garbage cleanup and playing tough defense. Look how godawful almost every team he has been on since then has been.

 

I concur.

 

you probably regretted posting this thread didn't you??

 

don't know about retire. but most likely he'll serve the full length of his contract.

c'mon, two more wins the curse is gone. i really want a 1st rd win for him badly. 4 more days and 2 more wins...

 

Good post.

TMac just isnt worth what hes making. Like DD said, shop him and see what is offered. If we can get reletive value for him do it. If not hold on to him and see what happens. At worst we have a huge expiring contract that still has something to offer talent wise.

Good solid veteran and an up and coming young player would do it for me.

 

"Our talent and resources are all spent on McGrady"? ... What in the world does that even mean?

 

I think he means the 21 million next season and the 23 the season after. While I don't agree with him it is alot of money to have tied not going towards better support for him in the roster.

 

do you think g. arenas is any good to trade to the rockets?

 

How are McGrady's stats misleading? Historically he hasn't been a bad shooter like Iverson has.

 

I'm not saying Tmac is the reason his teams have failed to advance by any means, but at the same time he has never been quite great enough to carry a team over the top. Hopefully that will change with the Rockets. I certainly want him to succeed, but Tmac has given plenty of reasons to doubt. I can't think of another supposed "super star" in league history that had never won a play off series by their 11th season. Most "super stars" are getting hammered for not winning rings by that point in their careers.

It's just funny to suggest that Tmac has had a better career than Iverson, who has carried a team to the finals, and has been league MVP. It seems kind of contradictory to say that most of Iverson's teams have been god awful as if he were the cause, and then point to Tmac's lack of success as being because his teams were god awful... Some how AI's god awful teams have managed to get out of the first round 4 times in his 11 years, including the finals trip, and Tmac is still looking to win his first series ever.

 

Historically, McGrady has shot better than Iverson overall, but that's besides the point. I mean McGrady has a bigger positive impact on his team in spite of his relatively poor (by superstar standards) statistics, while Iverson has a pretty negligible positive impact on his team in spite of his relatively good statistics. Iverson is a glorified Marbury.

 

The point is that by the time McGrady had a team around him that was as good as the competitive teams Iverson had in Philly (and the team he had in Orlando absolutely was NOT comparable; not even close), he was in one of the deepest and most talented conferences the league had ever seen. During the years the Sixers did any damage in the playoffs, Iverson had at least three players on his team who were all better than a rookie Drew Gooden, and the east was absolute trash. Again, like I said, this years Rockets, even without Yao, would have had a cakewalk to the finals in the 2001 Eastern Conference... hell, even the 2001 Rockets with Steve Francis might have made the finals that year. Remember that was the first and ONLY team in NBA history to sweep the entire Atlantic division?

Iverson's playoff "accomplishments" in the east are practically meaningless. Once the east improved just a little bit, and his team lost their leadership, he could barely even make the playoffs in that weak ass conference, let alone get out of the first round. He had talent, too (a not-completely-broken-down Webber, and a quickly improving Iggy, for example). Then he comes west, and he is put along several talented offensive players, as well as a center that was the defensive anchor for a team that made the finals in '99, and he is allowed to run the team however he so chooses, and he barely cracks the 50-win mark once, and barely gets one single win in the playoffs out of nine tries, even though both him and his sidekick play almost all of this season.

 

Here are the facts:

55 wins without our best player for the last 27 games.
Our rookies (Scola, Landry, Brooks) are all better than expected
Morey did a fantastic job with his roster in his first season
The players didn't really pick up Adelman's offense until the second half of the season, and he still has stuff to implement.

This means that we have room to improve on a 55 win season. We I say we keep our core and let things settle in for a little bit. aren't like Phoenix or Dallas who have a whole bunch of old stars and no young talent to eventually get better. We have a lot of different ways our team can improve wihout huge changes.

Yao gets foot repaired and can finally play a full season (see Ilgauskas' career for precedent)

Our rookies get better.

Through the draft and small, yet inspired deals, Morey adds another productive player or two.

Francis gets healthy and contributes

The players get used to one another and Adelman's offense, leading to better offensive output

Don't give up McGrady yet, not for at least one more season.

 

I want to see the current team and a healthy Yao next season with Francis back also as I believed we would be able to challenge the Lakers, SAS and Celtics.
I hope Morey can get a good back up guard and a decent back up center.

 

JVG responded to this question in the following way:

1. The West was overrated this year. The three teams that were head-and-shoulders above the rest last year all dropped significantly for various reasons this year. New Orleans and LA got better, and Utah and Houston are about where they were last year. Point differential will support all the previous statements.

2. As much as it's depressing how Yao's gotten injured the last three years, you can attribute much of them to flukes.

3. Our whole team is still relatively young.

Lance mentioned this at the same time:

The Rockets in the 90's beat the Jazz in the first half of the decade, then made the Barkley trade to better matchup with Seattle, but it put them at a disadvantage against Utah so by virtue of staying patient and remaining constant, Utah was able to make two Finals despite not adjusting to their opponents. You look at the moves Dallas and Phoenix made this year, and the idea of maintaining patience finds particular resonance.

The point I will make is:

1. We're NOT getting better for the next three years if we trade McGrady for a package that does not include a player better than him (Kobe, Lebron, Paul, KG, Duncan, Amare--NOT Nowitzki, NOT Wade, NOT Joe Johnson).

2. With the increased depth Morey is giving us--and Morey has only been in charge for less than a year btw--we are getting close to the point where we can still cream the scrubs without Yao or T-Mac. Once that happens we'll be able to sit both stars periodically throughout the year with phantom injuries.

3. The Big Three of the past (Dallas, PHX, SA) have slipped. Every team besides LA does not have a ceiling higher than we do at full strength. If you want to talk about New Orleans, talk about the pasting they took at our hands in one of Yao's last games with us this year: they have no answer for him at all. We cannot predict what will happen in the future, so while we still have the potential to win a championship there is no point blowing up the team.

4. Do NOT underestimate the ability of Morey to acquire cheap talent. The more and more he has the reins of our team, the more and more we'll feel like San Antonio where our draft picks spend a couple years in the Euroleagues, then come onto our roster ready to contribute immediately. I kinda want us to draft a back-up SG this year to replace Head (CDR? Courtney Lee?), but I also kinda want Morey to draft an international kid none of us have ever heard of, have the press rail on him for two years, then see that kid join our team as the next Jose Calderon.