OMG, how is the world, which is round BTW, can I forget to mention the Great, the Magestic, the Magnificant Yinka Dare???? I must repent tonight. This is a sin that's unforgivable. Look at him!!!
Can anyone post Hakeem and Duncan's Finals numbers for their careers? If I'm correct, I think Dream had better points/assts/steals averages but Duncan should easily edge him in rebounds and maybe blocks. I have been searching the net to find these stats but I can't find anything.. Any help?
I can't help you with finals, but maybe if you should use playoff stats (a bigger, more relevant sample anyway) that are available. I don't recall what DUncan's line was in 99 so I'm not sure who would be the tops.
I think you are giving Shaq too much credit, and not giving Duncan enough. You forget, Shaq was very stoppable until he got to LA (remember the sweeps), and his teams didn't start winning championships until he was the last center standing. He can't use the Dream/Garnett excuse either (I didn't have any help). Put Duncan's numbers against' Oneal's and they are just as impressive, especially for this Final's series. He has won 2 championships in 6 seasons (when did Shaq win his first?) and gone through Shaq both times. He also won his titles with far less help. If I'm not mistaken, his team has been a contender every year that he's been there. Has he ever been swept? Also, Duncan in a PF, not a center. If you want to list him as a center just because he is 7'0, then you might as well list KG as a center too, and list Magic as a PF. Don't hate on him because of his height advantage, and I'm pretty sure he isn't the only 7 footer playing PF these days.
Huh? I don't think you read my posts, I said he was a PF and thats why I didn't include him. The very post of my you quoted says "I think he is clearly the best PF of all time" O'Neal is more impressive than Duncan to me. Sorry, he just is. Statistically, it is even, unless you count that O'neal 1. scores more and 2. gets more rebounds. Yes duncan has a slight edge in assists and they around even in blocks. But there has not been a force under the basket like Shaq since Chamberlain, and Duncan, while a great player, is a different animal. I'm not alone in this. Do a search for "most dominant player" and O'neal and see how many hits you come up with. Then do the same thing with "duncan".
I understand what you are saying, but how can you not consider Duncan just as dominating when: A) His numbers are close/the same B) He has won more titles in fewer years C) He didn’t have as much talent on his title teams D) His team hasn’t been swept You have seen what Duncan did with this years Spurs team. How do you think he would have fared with Kobe, or a young Penny? My point is just that before 2000, Shaq was very stoppable. He posted great numbers, but other teams did not have a problem stopping him to win 4 games in a row. I guess winning makes people forget the past……
Iceman, since we both consider Duncan to be a forward, then why are we even bothering with this argument since this thread is about Centers? Look, they are both great players. I think Shaqs achievements ooutshine Duncans as far as we stand today, and are unique in NBA history ( witness the reverent tones in which Yao speaks of playing Shaq) which I think many people would agree with, but who's to say that that might not change some day.
Duncan and the Spurs were swept by Shaq and the Lakers in 2001, with the Lakers going on to win their second championship. That was a miserable series which had been hailed as "the series everybody's been waiting for." I think the Spurs were outscored by 60+ points in games 3 and 4 combined.
Of course in 2001 SA lost their second leading scorer (DA) thanks to a Juwan Howard clothesline earlier in that playoffs and a hobbled Elliott couldn't bring the solid play that he did during that regular season. I only mention this since some here think it's appropriate to point out the injury problems of other teams in the playoffs...only when the Spurs win, no doubt.
Bill Russel should be no higher than 3rd greatest center. Considering the level of his competition, all of his numbers besides rebounding were rather pedestrian. He didn't have nearly the all around game of Wilt and Kareem. Wilt should be first, Kareem second, and after that it becomes debateable. Also, it is a bit too early to proclaim Duncan the greatest PF OAT. He has quite a way to go to put together the career of a Barkley, Malone, etc.
If he puts together 6-7 more 20-10 seasons, which he should be able to do in his sleep, then it is no contest. He already did the one thing those two could not, by himself, twice.
He could be. I say hes high 2nd tier but no doubt he will get into the first tier by the time hes done. Hes probaly already a top 50 player of all time if he retired today.
