Those 2 first round picks that you fret about are garbage picks, Donte Green and Omri Casspi? You want to give guaranteed money to those guys? Oh I forgot, you surely would have parlayed those picks into either getting Camby, DeAndre Jordan, Tim Thomas, or Ricky Davis. That upside argument on Gay is slowly losing steam, nothing he's done has shown me he would have been a dependable 3rd scorer. I assume you didn't mean Brewer as that 3rd scorer, cause I don't think of him as that. That Gay or Brewer argument you have over Ariza and Battier doesn't really hold much weight, it's just you pissing and moaning again. I'm not saying it's a complete wash, but I'm not exactly sitting here gnashing my teeth in not having Gay or Brewer.
V, when have I ever said trading a pick or anything of value for those players you always bring up? Why would a team that already have a young player that is getting better and is a proven 16ppg guy which equals a 3rd scorer add another player of similar ability and similar age to the same team? That's dumb and doesn't make any sense at all. Part of the draft is filling a need and bpa which deosnt add up if u already have a wing combo of mcgrady/brewer/gay combo. So the player that may have been taken couldve been a big or a backup wing since head was that guy unsuccessfully. I guess anytime u respond to a post of mine u have the ricky davis, tim thomas and crew already saved to your desktop. I really don't care, but it would be nice if you put in context the proposals in those trade threads when they were mentioned. Of course, it easy to just say I wanted to parlay lotto picks or first rd picks for those guys to make yourself feel better, but anyone that has read any of my post know that I'm not ignorant nor stupid when talking hoops.
*chuckle* I was cracking a joke when I said that. I knew you would get your panties in a bunch and post something like that above. Your repetitive nature in your posts just makes it easy for me to crack a joke on things you like to repeat over and over again. I guess you can say it's my version of "Shane doesn't cut to the basket" type of comment; ie. I'll run the joke into the ground just like you like to mention Shane's lack of cutting from time to time.
This is so true. It took them so long to realize that the missing of a reliable 3rd scorer was what hindered us from advancing in the playoffs that when they finally saw it Yao & Tracy weren't there anymore. Intagibles my ass.
Rockets might've been hoodwinked on Gay. If you remember there was a well publicized tantrum Gay allegedly had after a workout. Some time ago a writer claimed that rumor had been leaked by the Grizzlies at the time to throw off other franchises...
Pretty sure ploys like these happen all the time and teams more or less smell what´s happening. They do a lot more scoutin and research than just during hte weeks leading up to drafts and I doubt if a team really likes a kid, they would be turned off by thing like that. I mean, MIL drafted Yi despite all the thins Dan Fegan did. Thabeet was also no showing at Grizzlies workouts and look where he ended up. As for what could have been... it´s really a pointless exercise by now... I mean, what could have been if the Rockets kept Mike James? What could have been if they kept Joel Przybilla instead of trading him for the late Jason Collier? What could have been if the Rockets drafted Jason Williams or Mike Dunleavy instead of Yao Ming? Could they have gotten Lebron or Melo next draft?
Exactly what i mean about fans not being able to separate their hate from the deal, now the hate is keeping you from thinking straight. What do you mean it took them "so long" to figure it out? Like i mentioned previously, even in 06, when they got shane, there was no clear evidence that the 3 star lineup was going to be necessary to win it all. Detroit had sort of done it, but it was far from concrete since they were coming from a weak East and their bread and butter was defense, not scoring. The spurs had that trio, but again they were mostly defense and only the 2nd team to win the ring recently without just 2 prime scorers. Miami won it that year with Shaq and Wade and a bunch of role guys. In 06-07 they barely lost to Utah. And everyone seems to forget they went out and added Bonzi Wells that same offseason they got Shane and he could have been that 3rd guy, but he flaked out prior to the playoffs. There was also much talk about JVG holding back the offense after those playoffs and he was fired.. Keep in mind it's much easier to try out a new coach first than to start dealing players, can be a lot more proactive in getting a coach than getting a player or players. Considering JVG wasn't an offensive coach, it was a no brainer to replace him if the offense was struggling. In 07-08 they did make some minor player additions to try and boost the scoring, acquiring Jackson, Francis, and James so they weren't satisfied just replacing the coach. Wells also opted to stick around this season, but of course flaked out again. Rockets also acquired Scola and drafted Brooks and Landry. This is when the injuries started to pile up... So i don't see where it took them "so long" to realize they needed a third scorer. At the time of the Gay trade that was not evident throughout the league, yet they still started making small acquisitions that same offseason and just one season later started making more significant moves.
I don't understand why people keep overlooking the fact that we signed Bonzi Wells that offseason to be that "3rd scorer". He just came off a playoff series where he averaged 23 and 12 against SAS. He was known to be a talented scorer for years. It's like in retrospect people want to blame Battier because Bonzi didn't live up to the expectations. Go back and read what the organization was saying about Bonzi when we got him: http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/Wells_signs_with_Rockets-190131-34.html He was supposed to be the third guy. We also got Snyder, and Spanoulis was supposed to be a talented young prospect. None of those three guys panned out. It happens. But let's not pretend that the attempt wasn't there to get scoring help.
You're flat out wrong. CD called Battier as part of the Big 3 on the day he acquired him and after that as well. It was a cover up to cool down the anger of the fans when they passed up on Gay. I didn't want Gay but many others did. Bonzi,was an attempt to acquire additional scoring,which was an indirect admission that Battier for the 8th pick wasn't enough. The addition of Artest wasn't only to help out Tracy but to make things easier for Battier as well. Ron became part of the Big 3,which we all know didn't work because of Tracy. CD even went to say that the Rockets were near to becoming a championship team after acquiring Shane,which was part of the spin story. It was all listed on Rockets.Com. That doesn't mean that Shane can't be a part of a contending team for the NBA championship.
Like Durvasa said, in retrospect it seems that way. No we think of big 3 and it's KG, PP, and Allen. We think the Lakers. We think Orlando, and so on. Back then, what was the big 3? Not that talented, since like i mentioned the top teams didn't have that trio of stars like they do now. The spurs were the closest in 05-06 and Manu at the time was only a 12-15 ppg player. You can throw in Josh howard in there too, but he too was a 12-15 guy that year. The following year was when they took a step up to that 17-20 ppg player. So at the time saying Shane was part of a "big 3" didn't mean a trio capable of scoring 20ppg, but 2 main guys and one at 12-15 range. However, i think the signing of Wells changed that up and Wells bumped battier down.
Then CD shouldn't have said we were near a championship immediately acquiring Battier either. There was a lot of control damage after being knocked out by 40 points in Game 7 by Dallas,and the fact that Gay was passed up made management defensive.
You're distorting my words sir. I was talking about the need for a 3rd scorer, not necessarily a star. Pistons actually played good offense that year, especially in the finals. Billups and Hamilton could give you 20+ each on a nightly basis and Rasheed Wallace averaged around 15 pts. You don't win a playoff series with 2 stars and a bunch of one-dimensional players (06-07). Anybody could tell the offense sucked with the lineup of Yao/Hayes/Battier/McGrady/Alston.
A lotto pick could do that via the right trade. You don't jump on a deal like that unless you're really desperate. Pick the best guy available regardless of position and wait for the right deal to come along. Michael Jordan was a scoring machine, why the need for Scottie Pippen?
Your analogies don't make any sense. That lotto pick netted us a starter who complimented Yao and Tracy, as well as giving us financial flexibility. It doesn't matter which way you look at it, Alston and Hayes are not starters on a contending team. They were the weak links and those positions needed to upgraded. Rafer is just plain awful and Chuck was a very young niche player. If you notice the way NEW management picks up players its all about best bang for the buck. They don't overpay people and they pick up players who are decent on BOTH ends of the floor. This "we needed a third scorer" mentality is garbage in my opinion, every player on your team should be a threat to score, unless that person is a role player who serves a specific purpose. Again, it wasn't Battier, Tracy or Yao who should be faulted for not getting past the first round it was the 10 other people who were just plain not good. The term "big three" should not of been used, it should of been "the only three"
I didn't blame the loss on Battier. Stick with the pick or trade him when a better offer comes up. If Shane Battier is all what you can get out of a #8 pick, you don't give up your most valuable asset by any means.
Just take a look at trades where lotto picks were involved in the past years: #5 for R.Allen in 2007. #8 for J.Richardson in 2007. #3 for #5 and M.Miller in 2008. #5 for M.Miller and R.Foye in 2009.
That may be true, but it doesn't discount the fact that people considered Gay a top 3 talent and he was there at 8. People also considered Brewer one of the best all around players in the draft and he goes later to Utah. I get back to this, after a injury riddles 05-06 season and looking at their roster and team makeup, what was there biggest needs? Once we answer that, then maybe we can get somewhere.
