Offseason Signings, Moves, etc.

finally someone understands where I'm coming from with this. you and meh hit the nail on the head.

All I'm saying is to be in this situation after 1 year of success, when it typically happens to teams after half a decade or more of success, is pathetic.

 

Let the year play out, I think we'll be fine prolly 10-6 again because of a tougher schedule, but nothing to get upset about. So ready for the 2012 season!!

 

Pointing out that the Texans have underachieved and wasted their window with the 2006 nucleus is not - let me repeat: NOT - in any way, shape or form excusing the Texans' current situation - it's simply *explaining* it.

By 2008, they already had Schaub, Leach, Johnson, Daniels, Brown, Winston, Williams, Ryans & Robinson on the roster. They should have won 9+ games that year (the hurricane and Schaub's injury ultimately derailed that season), gone to the playoffs in '09, maintained playoff contender status in '10 and made the leap to Super Bowl contender in '11. That should have been the legacy of the nucleus with the 2006 draft at its core. But they squandered it. And because of that, rather than jettisoning some of the parts more naturally over the course of 2008-2011, they kept everyone together as long as possible to try and realize their potential. Now they're having to shed cash to make up for it.

If they've properly evaluated and developed Butler, Caldwell, Newton, Reed, Sharpton, et al - then they will successfully weather the same storm every good team has to navigate and their window will be extended through shrewd, smart personnel moves.

Most of us have faith that they can maintain/rebuild based on the talent they've previously acquired and developed; but none of us are lining up excuses if they don't. This transition/offseason is a critical one. And if they do fail, it won't be cap mismanagement that dooms them but poor personnel decisions (stacked on top of underachievement).

 

Ding ding. Not trying to excuse anything, but fans like TheChosenOne need to channel their anger in the appropriate direction. The necessity of slashing cash this offseason traces back to blown opportunities on the field, not "idiots in the front office".

 

Bucs? really when was the last time the enter the playoffs?
and yes they have tons of cap room this year, but till next year or in 2 years when they have to re-sign rookies from previous drafts (Freeman, Blount, etc) and players that they have signed in this offseason.

Also, the bucs sucked for 10 years, then went to win the superbowl, (2002) then they didnt have a lot of cap space till after 2006.

 

Right, they managed their cap poorly, admittedly so. They've totally revamped that.

They also made the playoffs in 2007 and missed the playoffs despite going 10-6 in 2010.

Anyway, this is a useless argument because we can't change anything. I believe the guy who structures contracts for the Texans has done a really bad job. You guys think he's done a good one. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

Still waiting on anybody in the "Texans have done a bad job managing the cap" to give us any kind of actual examples of them "mismanaging" a cap that they didn't know existed when they handed out these contracts to players in 2008 & 2009 who were threatening to hold-out or walk.

You have two choices.

1) Let those players walk/hold-out

or

2) Cut them this year

If you choose option 1, then you have to STFU as the Texans suck ass the past 3 years. Something I'm sure none of you would actually do. Beyond that, option 1 puts us hardly any closer to contending in 2013 as option 2 does. So, option 1 makes little to no sense any way you slice it. All it does is rob us of our competitiveness the past few years while getting us only marginally closer to our goals in 2013.

The only actual bad contract the Texans gave out over the past 3 years was Jacoby's, and to a lesser extent Walter's. The rest of them were either necessary (Andre, Smith, etc.) or became bad because of circumstances beyond their control (Demeco, Winston, etc.). Owen Daniels falls into a little bit of each of these categories (we needed him at the time, but he hasn't been very healthy since then and his backup proved capable in his absence... now, ironically, we need him again).

You know how you WOULD have a beef with the Texans? If they had paid Dunta or Leigh Bodden stupid money, and if they had re-upped Mario to megabucks years ago. If that was the case, then we'd be in some serious pain for 2013. But as it is now, we've drafted smart, turned trash into treasure via UDFA and waiver, and been tight enough with the purse strings to give ourselves the ability to re-upp our main cogs going into 2013 while losing mostly role players and marginalized veterans that were being overpaid. If Graham/Casey turn out to suck, Caldwell/Butler can't cut it, and Sharpton/Reed don't pan out... THEN you will have a legit beef with the FO, until then, you have no actual reasons to complain, and are simply b****ing to b****.

 

Anyone know what the estimated cap increase is going to be for next season and beyond? Or is that still unknown at this point? I'm reading so many conflicting reports.

 

NFL contracts are all about how you structure them. That's the point. You don't seem to grasp it. Why don't we just move on? I'm fine with you thinking they've managed it well, why can't you be fine with me thinking they haven't?

 

Eh, you can be great at structuring contracts but eventually you still just flat out run out of money to give big contracts out. It's not possible to give out infinite big contracts and magically structure them so that they all fit under the cap.

Since everyone wants to praise the Eagles cap management and bash ours, let's take a look at their situation versus ours. I'm no expert but assuming this data from spotrac is fairly accurate, let's examine:


Eagles have about 13 contracts that I would call "big" (averaging 4 million and up, not factoring in how much is guaranteed vs signing bonus, etc), one of those now being DeMeco.

Eagles 13 "big" contract players

Spoiler

Vick, Peters, Aso, Samuel, Cole, Jackson, Ryans, Patterson, Jenkins, Celek, Babin, Herremans, Mathis

Texans by contrast now have about 9 "big" contracts. Had we somehow kept DeMeco, Mario, and Winston, it would be 12 vs 12 compared to the Eagles.

Texans 9 "big" contract players

Spoiler

Dre, Joseph, Schaub, Foster, Myers, Smith, Daniels, Walter, Manning

So, what gives? Well, Cullen Jenkins ($820k) and Desean Jackson (750k) are making measly base salaries this year. They both jump up to a combined $9 million next year. Eyeballing the rest of their contracts, it looks like they'll jump up about $19 million in payroll next year. Again, I don't know how precise these numbers are but I'll assume they are close.

Oh, and they also have LeSean Mccoy and Rodgers-Cromartie that are going to want premium money.

Meanwhile, the Texans have one massive contract jump next year (Andre ~6 million) but other than that are fairly marginal increases.

Barwin, Brown, Quin, Schaub, and Butler are all potentially due relatively big contracts next year assuming they all perform well.

Conclusion
I don't trust the total cap figures that the site lists, but my bet is the Eagles will cut/trade Samuel and possibly one other player to sign DRC and Mccoy. Or they could let DRC walk. That would give them 14 "big" contracts going into 2013, with Vick, Peters, and Cole highly escalating in the coming years.

I'm also betting that the Texans will be able to re-sign at least 4 of our 5 FAs if not all 5. That would give us 13 "big" contracts going into 2013, with only Andre due to highly escalate.

I'll concede that the Eagles have managed the cap better in the short term, but remember that we made the playoffs and they didn't, and we were arguably Super Bowl contenders if Schaub doesn't get hurt. Spending big money in FA last year hurt us with our short term cap situation (the reason for the dramatic turnover this offseason), but I would argue that we are on a very similar track with the Eagles long term. And I would also argue that we are every bit the contender that they are, and probably more-so considering we have don't have an o-line coach in charge of the defense.

 

Because your argument sucks and doesn't make any sense nor prove anything.

Yes, structure is a part of contract negotiation. So what? You think they structured contracts poorly? How? That's a completely hollow, meaningless statement. Can you provide evidence or examples of this that place reasonable blame on the Texans FO? I've gone to pretty good lengths to explain to you why this situation played out like it did, and given you examples of alternatives to this scenario. Most of which absolve the Texans FO of any wrong doing when it comes to handling contracts (Unless you're in the very small minority of people who liked Option 1 in my example). It does NOT, however, excuse them from failing to make the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years. That's a legit gripe that we all have with them. But that's an on-the-field problem, not an in-the-office problem.

I'm fine with moving on with you thinking you're right, even though you can't seem to provide anything to back up what you're saying.

 

Cool. So it's over then? We agree. You think the Texans are good at managing the cap and I don't. Neither one of us need to argue about it anymore. Clutchfans agreement?

 

Yep. I'm satisfied. I made my case thoroughly, and I feel confident in it. Court of public opinion can take it from here.

Edit: You know what? I did think of one badly structured contract. Mario's. Paying him 18 million this year after paying him 2-3 million the rest of his career? That completely wrecked any chance of franchising him. But, once again, the terms of franchising him changed *after* the lockout. The 120% rule didn't exist before the lockout, IIRC. Even still, I don't think we would've come up with enough room to franchise him under the old rules (although it would've been a more realistic scenario). But it's the closest example of a poorly structured contract I could come up with.

 

Texans re-sign safety Quintin Demps

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AoKXY1.h0xJu0ek_ZoJruhVDubYF?slug=ap-texans-demps

Not sure what to make of this move...he did return kicks pretty good when he had the chance.

 

He's a solid backup at safety and helps with depth

 

Under rated signing, he played very well when Manning was hurt.

 

I like it, bill!
Good awareness and coverage skills. should have scored on that almost pick six!

 

That's true, I agree. *Chuckle, Chuckle*

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Kubiak said Derrell Smith, a practice squad LB from Syracuse, is moving to FB <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%2523Texans">#Texans</a></p>&mdash; Nick Scurfield (@NickScurfield) <a href="https://twitter.com/NickScurfield/status/199551690020630528" data-datetime="2012-05-07T17:30:05+00:00">May 7, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

we're so broke we are going to start having Tight Ends moonlight as outside linebackers.