DVauth -- entirely possible that George said, "let me know what the Astros final offer is, and I'll beat it...so I'm not making you a formal offer right now...not yet."
Ok, it's possible. Except it's highly, highly unlikely. Boras is trying to get leverage for his client, and out of the blue six days after meeting with the Yankees, Beltran suddenly starts spouting off how great George is and how he would be willing to play for either New York team. Not the day of the meeting, but six days after mind you. And in those six days the Yankees or Mets had not made "official" offers. I mean what you are suggesting is that Beltran spoke to get Houston to up it's bid only so George would pay more. Except that would be one of the dumbest strategies ever by Boras. If what you are suggesting is the case, then George would be pissed Beltran came to media six days after the meeting. He wouldn't want to pay more than he has to or else he'd just offer the 10 year/200 million dollar contract in the meeting and get it over with then. Therefore, Beltran has no reason to go to the press and while Boras wants more money, he wouldn't undermine the Boss to do it. The only reason Beltran goes to the press this late in negotiations and days after meeting with the Yankees is to try and bluff the Astros into offering more money, and it's not because George will beat it since he would want Carlos to keep it hush/hush so he didn't have to spend as much. And if he was willing to beat any offer, he'd just offer the 10 for 200 deal and get it over with. It's not like he can't afford it. Anyway you slice it going to the press by Beltran is not helping George in this situation, and thus it makes your premise highly unlikely.
Excuse me, it was actually 3 days, as this article ran Friday in PR, but still that doesn't change the situation at all.
It's not a stretch at all. Boras is notorious for being one of the sneakiest agent in baseball. He would love to trick McClane into bidding against himself.
What about the fact that McLane has indeed commented, albeit not specifically, on the negotiations subsequent to their meeting? He commented on their chances, and he very specifically denied the 6/16 offer that was reported by the ridiculous Chronicle. Secondly, you say it's possible Steinbrenner is simply waiting to beat Houston's highest offer, but "highly unlikely." But you don't offer any tangible reasons why it's highly unlikely (or I missed them). Why isn't it likely? The question concerns Steinbrenner's motivations, not Boras's, and such a tactic would satisfy the need to bid higher without paying 10/20.
I explained it above, but i'll do it again here. Sure George could tell Carlos that he will beat or at least match any offer Houston made. However, as a businessman, why would he want Carlos Beltran days after divulging that information to talk to the press about the interest from the Yankees. That only serves to scare the crap out of Houston, and thus drive the price for Carlos up, which George would have pay. Why would George want to pay more money than he would have to if Carlos just kept quiet. It's not in his best interests. This isn't like Carlos was gushing about NY at the meeting, this was reported days after the meeting. That would be different. And since this is the first time Carlos Beltran has spoken since the end of the season about offseason negotiations, I'd say there is a driving force behind it. Keep in mind, the Astros have said numerous times they are keeping things quiet at the request of Beltran/Boras. These comments from Beltran go against that idea entirely. Now, who is the driving force? It's more than likely Boras. And Scott Boras is not dumb enough to try to play games with George Steinbrenner in the press. Taking that into consideration, why would Beltran talk if George had promised him he would outbid the Astros. It makes no sense as that would anger George as Beltran tries to generate better offers from Houston. As far as the 10/200 point is concerned, is if George isn't concerned about the money he would spend on Beltran, he would have just offered it then and there and Beltran would have jumped all over it. It's not like George can't afford it. But he didn't, thus he is concerned about the money he would pay Beltran. Therefore he definitely doesn't want to see Carlos talking to the press days after the meeting saying I can play in New York, etc, as that is primarily designed to make the Astros up their bid. If it really was about being impressed by the meeting, you would have seen Beltran's quotes the day of said meeting. That is why the scenario max proposed is highly unlikely. It's far more likely Boras is trying to do anything he can before the 8th to get the Astros to pour extra dollars into their bid.
And as far as McClane talking about the Beltran negotiations goes, Drayton has never come out and said anything about the teams offer. In fact, he has never confirmed any specific offer at all. That is called keeping quiet when it comes to negotiations.
George didn't get into this position by simply giving people everything they want. Why would he pay 20 mil per year if he didn't have to? He and every other gm in this little battle royal for Beltran are playing the game just as much as Boras is.
That is the point DV is trying to make. If George wasn't concerned with the money then he would have paid the 10/200. But he didn't so therfor ehe is concerned. That said if he told them he'd beat any Houston offer, then the strategy of playing up New York bites Steinbrenner. If the motivation behind playing up NY is to get Houston to offer more then it would also force Steinbrenner to ultimately have to offer more to beat Houston. On a second note, do agents have to reveal offers from other teams? Probably not. If Boras had a deal with the Yanks to beat any other offers then he just has to go to him and say "look Houston offered 7 years at 16 million, now beat that". There wouldn't be any need to use the media to drive up the price from other teams. If the Yankees were just going to beat whatever other offers you got, then just make up an offer of what you want and let them give you more.
Thank you for repeating what I said. I thought I made this clear. The scenario max created makes absolutely no sense because George wouldn't want Carlos Beltran to say a damn thing to the press. If he had told him he would go beyond every offer the Astros make, then I highly doubt he wants Beltran talking up the interest in New York knowing full well that the only purpose it serves is to increase the Astros bid, and thus the number George has to pay. Point being: if George didn't care about the price on Beltran he would have just offered the 10/200 contract that would automatically sign Beltran because it's not like he doesn't have the resources. However, he doesn't want to do that which I made clear, therefore, Carlos Beltran talking to the press does nothing but hurt him in max's scenario. It would have been in his best interest for Beltran to just keep quiet. The most logical scenario here(based on sources here, the fact there have been no reported offers from either NY team) is that Boras wants to scare the Astros into increasing their offer to Beltran, or that Carlos all of a sudden had one heck of a mental lapse that goes against his/Boras's entire negotiating strategy. I think odds are heavily in favor of this being the former, as Boras and his clients are not known for screwing up negotiations since the man is the premier agent in the game.
fox news just said they have found out what has really been offered. It is still a 5 year 70 mil deal with a 14 mil dollar option for a 6th if we do not pick it up we pay him 5 mil so the deal is actually 5 year 75 mil could be 6 at 84
I heard that as well ... I just don't know if that is going to be enough ... I'm hoping they can give him about the same yearly salary, but add a year or two to the contract. I think he's worth the risk, and yes, I understand giving anyone a 7-8 year deal is a huge risk.
12/27/2004 9:55 PM ET Report: Offer to Beltran revised By Jim Molony / MLB.com HOUSTON -- The Astros have revised their contract offer to free agent Carlos Beltran, a Houston television station reported on Monday night. KRIV-TV, citing Major League Baseball sources, reported that the Astros have added an option year to their original offer of $70 million over five years to Beltran. According to KRIV, the sixth year would be worth $14 million to Beltran or a buyout of $5 million if the Astros do not pick up the option. The Astros made their initial offer on Dec. 6, and revised the offer during a face-to-face meeting with Beltran and his agent, Scott Boras, on Dec. 22 at Houston's Spring Training facility in Kissimmee, Fla. A day earlier, Beltran and Boras met with New York Yankees owner George Steinbrenner, president Randy Levine and general manager Brian Cashman in Tampa. Astros GM Tim Purpura's policy is not to comment on offers or reported offers. The club did confirm offers to Beltran at a news conference last week, but did not give details. Astros owner Drayton McLane Jr. would not give specifics either, although in an interview with MLB.com he did confirm a newspaper report claiming the Astros had upped the offer to $96 million was incorrect. The Astros have until Jan. 8 to re-sign Beltran. After that, they must cease negotiations with the 27-year-old until May 1, which would essentially end Beltran's stay with Houston. The switch-hitting center fielder hit .267 with 38 homers, 104 RBIs and 42 stolen bases for Kansas City and Houston in 2004. He also made the All-Star team and turned in one of the finest postseason performances in history, hitting .435 with eight homers and 14 RBIs in 12 games. In addition to the Astros and Yankees, the Mets, Cubs and Tigers are interested in Beltran.
Link Dec. 28, 2004, 1:05AM Mets enter Beltran picture New York's GM to meet with star next week; Astros want resolution sooner than that By JOSE DE JESUS ORTIZ Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle Mets general manager Omar Minaya, the man who discovered Sammy Sosa and Juan Gonzalez, is about to make his move on All-Star free agent Carlos Beltran. While the Astros and Yankees have been at the center of the Beltran talks this winter, the Mets have quietly set up their game plan. Minaya has done his homework on the center fielder, spending part of Christmas Eve collecting an extensive scouting report on Beltran, according to a person with intimate knowledge of the situation. Minaya was unavailable for comment, but an industry source confirmed that the Mets are in the process of setting up a meeting with Beltran and his agent, Scott Boras, for early next week. The Chicago Cubs and Detroit Tigers also remain in the hunt for Beltran, who is no longer listening to teams not willing to offer at least a seven-year deal. "If there's going to be one or two more teams (competing for Beltran), bring them on," Astros owner Drayton McLane said via telephone from Birmingham, Ala. Nevertheless, it is clear that the Astros are starting to get nervous about the possibility of being left without Beltran. Beltran — whose price already has eclipsed the six-year, $96 million mark — met with Yankees owner George Steinbrenner a week ago in Tampa, Fla. He talked with McLane, general manager Tim Purpura and president of baseball operations Tal Smith last Wednesday in Kissimmee, Fla. The Astros made what they described as a very substantial offer. The parties agreed to take the Christmas holiday off from negotiations. Although the Astros have until Jan. 8 to re-sign Beltran or lose negotiating rights until May, McLane expects things to clear up this week. "We told him we certainly needed an answer by the latter part of this week," McLane said. Moreover, McLane says the Astros have received assurances that the Beltran situation will be cleared up before Jan. 8. "Scott told Tim and Tal that it would not go to that Jan. 8 deadline," McLane said. Since failing to re-sign slugging second baseman Jeff Kent, who rejected a one-year, $7 million contract offer with a $7 million option for 2006 on Dec. 7, the Astros essentially have focused on Beltran. They have lost out on some of the outfielders they targeted in free agency and the trade market. "We don't want to be left out in the cold if we can't get Beltran," McLane said. "Moises Alou has moved on. Steve Finley has moved on." Alou was right behind Beltran atop the Astros' wish list because he's an established run-producer and a former Astro, and seeing Alou sign with the San Francisco Giants was a sobering realization for McLane. Beltran had 38 home runs, 104 RBIs and 42 stolen bases last season with the Astros and Kansas City Royals. The five-tool switch-hitter raised his stock in the playoffs, hitting .435 with eight home runs, 14 RBIs and six stolen bases in 12 games while leading the Astros against the victorious Cardinals in the National League Championship Series. With Craig Biggio, 39, and Jeff Bagwell, 36, closing in on retirement, McLane has lobbied Beltran, 27, to become the next face of the Astros. "I told him, 'With Lance Berkman coming along and Roy Oswalt and yourself, you can be the next wave of Houston Astros,' " McLane said. In McLane's perfect world, the Astros would have Beltran signed before Jan. 1. Although the Mets have long been mentioned as potential suitors for Beltran, they hadn't been considered serious contenders until Beltran told a Puerto Rican newspaper about his interest in playing in Queens. Minaya already surprised the baseball establishment by persuading fellow Dominican Pedro Martinez to leave the World Series champion Boston Red Sox and sign with the Mets. ________________________________________________________ It's interesting to finally see what Kent was offered.
Wow, Dvauth...I hope you're right, but I think it's wishful thinking. It seems every inference favors the 'stros...I wish that were so.
I agree with Max...DV's thoughts on the situation are just that....DV's thoughts. Its not as though he was privy to some insider meeting and is giving us the scoop on what is happening. That being said, I hope it pans out the way you are describing...but we'll see. I look at the Mets involvement 2 ways. First, they can help us in our "battle" with the Yanks. Wilpon will make damn sure that he tastefully disparages the Yankees organization during his courtship of Carlos...not even alluding to the fact that the Astros could be their main competition. This gives Carlos the "down" side of playing for the Yanks and since it comes from Wilpon, Drayton looks like the nice guy and we don't get into a mudslinging campaign with the Yanks. This is also interesting...apparently, the Yanks and Mets are also fighting over someone else named Carlos who will make a ton of money.....Delgado. The Yanks have said in today's paper that their "plan B" for Beltran is to leave Bernie in CF, and bring in Delgado to play 1st (Giambi would DH if healthy). The Mets also want Delgado. The paper (the Post I believe...i read about 3 papers this morning) also says that an unnamed MLB GM is quoted saying that its a known thing that all things being equal, Carlos wants to stay in Houston.
http://www.nypost.com/sports/mets/37252.htm Here is the article i was reading earlier Here's one of the excerpts... The Mets are furthest along with Carlos Delgado, though the gulf between their offer (about $33 million for three years) and what the first baseman is seeking (four years at $45 million-plus) is wide. The Mets likely want to know for sure if they are in the Beltran derby before they commit even more dollars to Delgado. The Wilpons are worried Beltran's agent, Scott Boras, is using the Mets to spur George Steinbrenner to bid more zealously, and that the organization risks humiliation with its fan base and the media if it loses a one-on-one financial battle against The Boss. An executive from a team not interested in Beltran said it was his perception that, all things being equal, Beltran would prefer to remain with the Astros. The part about the Yanks wanting Delgado as a plan B may have come from the Star Ledger http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1104216650129010.xml The signing of Delgado by any team is on hold because the Yankees have told his agent that they want to wait to see whether they get Beltran. If they don't get Beltran, the Yankees plan to pursue Delgado to play first base, leaving Bernie Williams in center field and Jason Giambi at DH if he comes back at all.
I do not know if this helps us that much, but the Yankees have to pay 30% salary tax this year. If they exceed the limit for next year, they will have to pay a 40% salary tax. Salary tax They are almost certain to go over the cap, so every $1.00 they spend on Beltran would cost them $1.40. Maybe that helps keep the price in our range.
