We had a similar discussion here in the office and one of the arguments for signing Beltran even though his regular season numbers were blah was that as long as his numbers *helped* the Astros get to the postseason and he finally decided to show up in the playoffs, a la 2004, then sign him to whatever he wants. If the Astros can push to the playoffs over the life of his contract, I don't care what they pay him as long as he delivers like he did last Fall. But I can definitely understand the arguments coming from people who say he is being overpaid. Essentially, this enormous contract is solely based on his defensive abilities and one of the most incredible offensive playoff runs anyone has seen. If we could just see into the future...
i'm reminded of super bowl mvp's who get overpaid the next year and never perform that way again. having said that, i think beltran is an exceptional talent...enough to make me say we should pay him on line with pujols and vlad, even if he hasn't reached their level yet. but i wouldn't pay much more than that....not if it were my money.
Max (and I'm not arguing with you because i know you want the guy as bad as i do)....the Astros NEVER get a shot ....and I mean a legit shot...at signing an impact player like this. He's different than Bags, Bidge...whether its the aura he brings or the performance he had (and created for the other guys on the team) in the playoffs. I just think that Beltran could really be the difference between us getting over the hump and winning 82 games. Aside from practically assuring us of having Clemens back...he will enable us to attract other free agents. This goes way beyond stats...i'll hesitate to call him a once in a lifetime player because he isn't there...yet.....but as far as the Astros are concerned, he is a once in THEIR lifetime player.
With the way Carlos has allowed Boras to toy with the Astros, if he signs he will certainly be cheered but if he doesn't he will always hear Astros fan boos.
Beltran doesn't have pujols or vlad numbers but he adds much more than those guys on defense and base running that it makes up what he lacks in hitting. guys who can go 40/40 are special. For people who say he isn't as good as the hype, how soon we forget.
i agree...but that's the same kind of thing the Rangers said when they gave A-Rod the moon and a ladder...and then begged for mercy. pay market value relative to other players of his ilk. is anyone actually arguing that he's BETTER than pujols or vlad??? seriously??? i'm saying pay him as much as those guys, who to me are the best in the game who aren't named Bonds. i'm saying give him that much money!!! i'im also saying, don't pay him much more than that. .
I totally agree with you (as usual)... but the only reason I would be willing to make an exception for Beltran is because he fits THIS team so well, shoring up almost every one of our weaknesses. A centerfielder who can cover ground in the outfield, is fundamentally sound defensively, and one who can steal bases.... this is ALL the Astros really need from that position. When you add the fact that he can hit for a decent average, as well as hit for power as well... its just an added bonus that's too good to pass up. Pujols and Vlad are great... but they wouldn't add as much to this Astros team as Beltran does because he plays CF, and can steal bases (and basically nobody else on this team can do those things)
The difference is, Beltran's contract won't be close to A-Rod's. I don't think he'll end up being that far off from Pujols and Vlad. Also, you have to remember the circumstances surrounding those two. Pujols was signed in a manner similar to how I predict Berkman and Oswalt will be signed. There wasn't a bidding war, it was just the Cardinals securing their player, IIRC. With Vlad, like others have pointed out, he was coming off back problems, which may have placed a ceiling on his potential earnings. I think 16.5 a year for this guy sounds may be a little high, but it's worth it when you only have a shot at a guy like this once in a blue moon. Also, I believe that number will be a bargain in three to four years when player's salaries inevitably climb near the $20 million range.
i'm not so sure they'll climb to $20 million. i'm not sure there are more revenue pools to support that in most markets. hell, everyone already has a new ballpark! there are few franchises that could pay that kind of money anytime soon. i'm fairly certain the astros would be affected, long term, by having a player on the roles at $17mil/year for 6-7 years to come. particularly as the guy goes into his 30's.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I don't think it'll hurt anymore than having Bagwell on the books for as long as he's been. If we sign him to a $17mil/year contract at 7 years, he'll be 34 when the contract is up. He'll probably sign another 4-5 year deal after that. Unless you believe that his skills and work ethic will suddenly decline as he hits his peak, it'd be worth having him at that price for those years.
Going back to this quote, I'm pretty concerned. As someone who used to dabble in PR for a living, it sounds to me like Purpura is trying to do preemptive damage control for when(?) we get outbid. Or, it could be a way of trying to talk to Beltran without having to do it through Boras. Not sure if they get 610 in Puerto Rico, though. Man, January 8 can't get here soon enough.
1. i just don't see new revenue pools...unless they start pay-per-viewing games or something. 2. bagwell hasn't been at $17mil/year for long. certainly not for 6-7 years. it was backloaded. we haven't had that as an impediment every year since he signed the deal with us.
I believe it runs for 2 more guaranteed years at 17 million. The final year is an option year that will surely be bought out for 7 million.
Yea, through 2006. I'm guessing Bagwell will hang it up after that, pending a miraculous shoulder recovery. So really we're looking at 2 years, 40 mil or so for the rest of his deal. Alot of money, but it'll be done relatively soon. In 2007, we won't have Bagwell or Biggio. After so many years with those 2 guys as the face of the franchise, it'll definitely be strange.
The new tv contract with FSN I believe is for $25 mil per year. Comparing that to what they were under (around $9 mil/yr), there is definitely a greater source of revenue.
you have to love boras... espnnews said he is telling everyone there is 5 teams that have met or exceeded 7 years and 112 mil
