Well, that's stupid... because then its neither about the money or winning... its just about screwing Houston. I'm pretty sure Drayton would match any offer up to around $110 million... after that, he'd have to think about it.
Jan. 5, 2005, 11:09PM You guys were right about how ansy Drayton must be about waiting for "the" phone call from Bungholio. McLane awaiting agent's next move ; Boras holds all the tickets; Mets emerge as player in Beltran lottery By JOSE DE JESUS ORTIZ Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle In Fort Worth on business Tuesday, Astros owner Drayton McLane kept checking his offices in Temple and Houston in hopes Carlos Beltran's agent, Scott Boras, had called to continue their negotiations. As of late Tuesday evening, McLane was still waiting for that call. "I'm living for that moment," McLane said. "It's so important for the Houston Astros to be a champion. We're living for the moment to sit down and make a deal with Carlos." That call is on its way from Boras, who has made it clear to teams he will not accept bids lower than seven years and $112 million. The Astros have made what McLane termed a significant offer, but McLane says he has no comment on the actual figure. The Astros' offer reportedly has ranged from as low as five years and $70 million to as high as six years and $96 million. The New York Mets, who quickly have become the Astros' biggest competitors for Beltran, spent much of Tuesday preparing an offer worth at least $100 million, a person close to the situation said. "We received offers from a number of teams, and we're in the process of going through deal points as to Carlos' future contract," Boras said by phone from Southern California. The Astros, Mets, New York Yankees, Chicago Cubs and Detroit Tigers have expressed interest in Beltran, who met in San Juan, Puerto Rico, on Monday afternoon with Mets owner Fred Wilpon, general manager Omar Minaya, assistant GM Jim Duquette and special assistant Tony Bernazard. Even if it's true the Yankees have cooled on Beltran, the Mets are more than rich enough to meet his price tag, if they decide to. The Mets had not made an offer as of Tuesday, according to a person close to that situation, but that's only because they were finalizing it. Because Beltran declined salary arbitration, the Astros must re-sign him by 11 p.m. Saturday or lose negotiating rights until May 1, essentially ending his days in Houston. McLane says Boras has assured Astros officials the Beltran sweepstakes won't go all the way to the Saturday deadline. McLane had hoped to have Beltran, 27, signed by early December at the winter meetings in Anaheim. But serious negotiations didn't begin until Beltran and Boras visited with McLane, Astros general manager Tim Purpura and president of baseball operations Tal Smith on Dec. 22 in Kissimmee, Fla. Boras and Beltran had met with Yankees owner George Steinbrenner on Dec. 21 in Tampa, Fla. McLane resumed negotiations with Boras last Wednesday and Thursday, but the talks stopped during New Year's weekend. "As it lingered, you get a little bit concerned when it just continues to be delayed," McLane said. "I don't know how to assess it." Boras, who hasn't eliminated the Astros, was busy Monday with the Mets' contingent, which is trying to sell Beltran on the opportunity to be the face of the franchise for years to come. "If (Boras) has a better deal than we had presented to he and Carlos, he'd say it," McLane said. "My conjecture is that he'd come tell us about it." There is plenty of time before 11 p.m. Saturday, and Wilpon surely didn't visit San Juan for the rum. By tonight at some point, the bidding truly will begin. Whether the Astros have reached the $100 million threshold, Beltran surely will have at least one offer that high, a top National League official told the Chronicle. jesus.ortiz@chron.com http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2978609
Hey, I read the board, I read the paper, I listen to the radio, I go to the games - that just seems to be the way the wind is blowing to me. I said "I think" that's what other fans feel, not "I know" - don't toss around words like "gall" just because I have an opinion, same as you. Why do some people have to make everything personal on these boards? Anyway, I stand by my opinion. I think there's a huge consensus that Ausmus is ineffective, Bagwell is broken down and overpaid, and Biggo is a laugh in centerfield. I think people who believe otherwise are either loyal to a fault (i.e. "Biggo's earned the right to play for however long he wants in an Astros uniform") or are just casual fans who can't see that these players slipping. You may think that Ausmus is the glue of the pitching staff, but I see a guy who Garner decided to platoon with Raul Chavez, who is not exactly Johnny Bench. You may think that Bagwell is heroic for playing hurt, but I see a guy who is hurting the team. You may think Craig Biggio is giving a great effort in the outfield, but I see a guy who would give pitching a try if he thought it would get him closer to 3000 hits. So feel free to disagree, but don't accuse me of having "gall".
Haha, platoon with Chavez? A catcher 1 in every 5 days? I guess Javy Lopez platooned with Eddie Perez in ATL too, huh? Ausmus handles pitchers well, and he's a big reason Clemens and Pettite were willing to come here. His arm has gotten worse, yes...but plug in a young catcher and watch pitchers ERA's rise just a bit (esp. younger pitchers, like Backe) Bagwell is still decent. I agree that he's not as good as he was...I don't think his shoulder hurts us as much in the field anymore cause the team has made adjustments to compensate. His bat suffered this year, but he was miles ahead of, say, Hidalgo. And he came up with some big hits in the playoffs here and there. What is your proposal though? Move Berkman or Lane to 1B? You don't want Bidge in the OF. So that leaves you with Beltran, Berkman/Lane, and an empty spot. Taveras isn't ready, and Beltran is already in CF. If we don't get Beltran, then we don't have the players to cover the OF, much less move one to 1B. Now Biggio? Please. Had an incredible season at the plate given how his bat *had* been declining and given the position changes he had been making. And given his age. He was pretty terrible in LF (though not quite as bad in CF..just not enough range)...but if he moves back to 2B this year, it'll be a defensive upgrade from Kent. And if he needs to play a little spot duty in the OF while we wait for Lance, I can deal with that.
Man, I thought I was freaking out about this stuff. At the end of the day, the Astros made a damn competitive offer. If he goes somewhere else, so be it. That would suck...but you don't overpay. You just don't. Cause you guys will be the first ones b****ing when we can't go sign a relief pitcher...or a starter...or whatever we need down the line, because we're stuck with a contract at nearly $17mill/year, when guys like Vlad and Pujuols are making $14mill/year. There ARE budgetary constraints. For all of us. For virtually EVERY team. There are a few exceptions in ridiculously huge markets with tons of media dollars. But those are exceptions. Most teams have to set some budgetary constraints. The Astros are among those franchises. If winning is more important than money, then let that speak. Otherwise shut the freak up. And/or fire your snake of an agent. I do agree with the sentiment that if Beltran isn't coming back, I want to see more of Tavares, Lane and Burke next year than we might otherwise.
as a season ticket holder, I couldn't agree with you more EDIT - i don't necessarily agree with the Biggio/3000 hits thing...but ..anyway...
That's what came out on FSSW after the Rocket game...but it was really no different that the article yesterday that already stated that we wouldn't get a "last look". This would mean one of two things...1) Carlos doesn't care where he plays or 2) Borass is driving the car. If Carlos was controlling this and wanted to stay here, he would definitely make sure Houston had a final look at the bids. This is just the way Borass gets teams to bid against themselves. Interesting thing on 790 this morning...I guess it was Justice possible on the air saying that a source of his who is a prominent GM in the NL said that he didn't even think the Mets were serious about Carlos and wouldn't be surprised if the Mets made any type of legit offer. He said that Wilpon is known for his frugalness and the Mets have a ton of debt...and baseball has a required debt ratio or something along those lines. I know to take Justice with a grain of salt but it was interesting to hear nonetheless
I am not a casual fan and I believe that Biggio and Bagwell have earned the right to be an Astro for however long they want. There is a reason there is a freaking statue for both of them outside MMP. Without them, there would be no MMP. Ausmus is still an enigma. For all that he does wrong (hitting, hitting, hitting, throwing out runners), I think he is more important for what he does right (handling the staff, blocking pitches and the plate). I like Chavez, but he is no more than a backup catcher. Hopefully, Gimenez will improve in AAA this year and be ready for Chavez's role in 2006 and take over full time in 2007. If not, a free agent will probably be signed after this season.
If they weren't making ridiculous amounts of money, I would agree.... and fyi - as much as it pains Houstonians to say this, without ENRON, not Bags and Bidge, there would be no MMP
Yeah I agree. I don't think anyone has made a serious offer other than the Astros and Boras is pulling out all the stops to try to get the Astros to flinch. Just stand pat Drayton we know you're trying. God I f***ing hate Scott Boras
I don't doubt there are other offers...but either Borass' claim that its going to take 7/112 to get to the bargaining table is a farce....or drayton has really steped it up
Biggio is making $3 million this year. In baseball terms, that isn't a ridiculous amount of money. Bagwell's deal was signed well before his shoulder went to crap. Had the injury not happened, we'd still be talking about Bagwell as an MVP candidate and he would be much closer to, if not past, 500 hr's. Besides, Bagwell has restructured his contract a few times to defer money so that the team could sign the Pettitte, Clemens, Kent, and has probably agreed to do so if Beltran stays. I'd say they both deserve every penny, IMO.
what? what did enron have to do with it?? because they bought naming rights??? enron was after the fact NJ. you still had to get the public to vote first. they did. the point made was that bagwell and biggio, particularly back then, were positive faces for the franchise and put them back in the playoffs for the first time in 11 years. biggio makes about $3 million. that ain't ridiculous money.
http://www.nypost.com/sports/sports.shtml January 6, 2005 -- Scott Boras declared yesterday there are five teams in the Carlos Beltran sweepstakes, all of which have met the agent's starting-point demand of at least seven years and $112 million. As of yesterday, the only team clearly known to have approached Boras' baseline is the Mets, which validates them as a major player and further fuels the possibility they are actually now the front-runners. "Any team I'm negotiating with has met this plateau," Boras said "That's the rules of the game. I'm not talking to anybody about Carlos Beltran if they're not at that number, with the condition that it's the starting point. The idea was to eliminate teams and to work with a small group." The Boras camp has left the impression that the Yankees are in on Beltran and in at the highest level - meaning George Steinbrenner. But, according to a source, Boras called Steinbenner directly Tuesday to try to re-start negotiations that have laid mostly dormant since Steinbrenner met with Boras and Beltran in Tampa on Dec. 21 at their request. Steinbrenner, according to the source, did not talk with Boras and instead ordered executives Randy Levine and Brian Cashman to inform the agent that until the Randy Johnson deal is finalized - and physicals are not scheduled until next week - the Yankees will not focus on anything else major. According to the source, the Yanks still had not made an offer to Beltran. In their internal meetings, the Yanks have decided if they acquire Johnson they will not pursue Beltran. However, some Yankee officials have tried to impress upon Steinbrenner the need for a more reliable center fielder than Bernie Williams and the fact the club will be shedding huge contractual obligations after the 2005 season, creating a better financial situation to sign Beltran. Nevertheless, it would take an eleventh-hour change of plans ordered by Steinbrenner to put the Yanks fully into the Beltran sweepstakes. The Yankees could be trying to impose their pace on these proceedings, rather than fall prey to Boras, and are waiting to strike late when all other clubs have made their intentions known. One Yankee official said last night he cannot imagine Steinbrenner simply standing on the sidelines when such a star is available, while another said that he did not think Steinbrenner had revealed his true intentions yet. The Mets, however, are one of the finalists for Beltran as the derby hits what could be its final 72 hours. Beltran's pursuit is widely expected to be resolved by Saturday at midnight, the deadline at which the Astros lose negotiating rights with him. It's not altogether clear what other clubs make up Boras' five-team claims other than the Astros, who have admitted to making an offer, and the Cubs, who have reportedly made an offer). Even if the Yankees emerge as the fourth team, it's even less clear whom the fifth club would be. Speculation has centered around Detroit, a club with money to spend, but GM Dave Dombrowski has said repeatedly that the Tigers are not in the hunt. Boras has gained a reputation among major league team officials for overstating the number of teams and dollars involved for his clients. Indeed, one MLB official insisted Houston's offer is for five years at $75 million with a sixth-year option that could bring the total to $90 million. Yesterday's Chicago Sun-Times, meanwhile, reported the Cubs have made an offer but for far less than any seven-year, $112 million standard. "We feel like we've made a very fair offer," Astros GM Tim Purpura told The Post. "We feel like we can certainly compete, and when you factor in a winning tradition and the kind of reception he had here from the fans, I certainly have strong hope that we can be successful in the end."
You are correct, and I am sorry it sounded personal. I disagree that the majority of fans feel that way, because the majority of fans don't spend their time calling talk radio shows or posting on Internet bulletin boards. The guys aren't booed at the games, nor is there a resounding silence when they come to bat. But, that's just my opinion, and it has no more merit than yours. ....on talk radio and the Internet. Well, in my case, I watch them play, too, and none of the things you say here are accurate from what I observe. 1 in 5 days is *not* a "platoon". That is a common practice in MLB. Common. And, nobody is Johnny Bench--not even Piazza. 90+ RBI's per year are so painful, aren't they? Defensively, the bum arm costs probably less than 1 run every two weeks if that, and has cost the Astros exactly zero games in the last three years. Bidge does not have a history of playing selfish, first of all. Second of all, did you *watch* him hit last year? If not, please review the numbers. Still scoring close to 100 runs every year, and getting tons of doubles and some power. And, he didn't play CF, he played LF, and was average when compared with his peers defensively, not below average. The common conception is that he is slow and can't track a flyball, etc, but when you actually watch the games, you see that is not the case. I do disagree. Completely. But I'm sorry about the "gall" thing.
