I'm good with that DD, it's not like TMac is in his prime. I would be for moving anyone on the roster if we get the better end of the deal. Remember that thread I started about this team will HAVE to rebuild. Just kidding.
I am fine with it either way......but I want someone to sit down with Tmac and tell him we are going to run the offense and that means he has to BUY in...and run himself....OFF THE BALL. If he can do that, then ok, but if he balks.....he would be gone. DD
Adelman pretty much coaches to his player's strengths. TMac is not Peja and Adelman knows it. If TMac ran off cuts and moved like Peja used to do it in Sac you would be elated. TMac is definately more of a rythmn shooter who likes to go one on one. He used to drive more, now his game is pretty much pass first and take advantage of mismatches. His shooting is off. And if we trade him I think the best reason is that he is at risk for more injuries, getting older and IS worn down and less explosive- not that he won't run Adelman's offense. Thanks for the beer.
Ron Artest first and foremost. Go hard for him. A backup swingman who can produce points on their own is #1 priority. He won't even have to come off the bench. He could start and when Shane comes in rotate the SG spot between T-Mac and Ron or go small and put Ron at PF. If not we better look for someone of the likes of Douglas-Roberts in the draft. I could live with the PG situation. All those other teams with All-Star PG's don't have an All-Star SG like we do, same with the Lakers. All we need is a PG who can play D, hit an open shot, and handle the ball. Check all 3. I'd be willing to give up Head(no Lance Bass) in a trade for anyone of value. I saw a post somewhere else that mentioned that Head doesn't bring anything to the table thats necessary when T-Mac sits, forcing T-Mac to have to play 42+ minutes just to make the game close. He's undersized, can't handle, can't pass, too slow for PG, and too small for SG. He's a liability on the court unless he's out there with T-Mac. IMO our untradeable players are the starting 5 and Carl Landry. Everyone else is fair game(unless Rafer is required to get Ron Artest). I'd even be willing to give up Chuck Hayes if it means getting another scoring threat. I'd trade any combo of guys off that bench for an improvement at backup SG/SF. We don't need any major shake-ups. Just give us another guy who can consistently drop 16-19ppg and become a fail-safe incase one guy gets injured again and the other doesn't have to carry the full burden for 43min+ every game.
I had a thread about "Available Free Agents for ROX" in 2008 season, can someone pull it up please I can not search for a thread.
At this point, I have to agree with Magic Johnson's assessment of the team earlier this season - this team is not going to be a contender with a Yao-Tmac duo. Of course, this is partly due to the fact that both players are injury-prone, but it's also due to the fact that they really don't mesh that well on the court. I just don't see the Rockets trading Yao unless they really feel he's never going to play a full season again. Even then, his consistency and dominance (at his position) and the revenue he brings in makes it very hard to justify moving him. I think with Tracy, you have to start thinking in terms of cost-benefit. Tracy is an amazing talent (probably one of the 3 most talented players in the league) but with his mental and physical fragility, he always seems to break down when the team needs him most (i.e. the 4th quarter of key games). Add to the fact that he's never been a consistent shooter yet seems more and more inclined to stay on the perimeter, and you have to ask "Is this guy really worth $20 million?" I don't really think we could get equal value for Tracy in a trade right away. There's nobody who can do everything he can. However, if you can trade him for some solid-level talent and expiring contracts (draft picks would be very nice as well), you might be able to make some additional trades and clear up enough cap space to sign/trade for 1-2 players who together bring all the things Tracy did (and even more). Ultimately, though, such a move means the Rockets will be bad for 1, maybe 2 seasons. So the question becomes whether the Rockets want to start rebuilding now (and hopefully have a contending team together for the last few years of Yao's career) or if they would rather postpone rebuilding until Tracy's contract ends and Yao is in the last years of his career.
This team should be reconfigured around Yao. The fact is, right or wrong, that he'll never be traded. In all likelihood, he'll spend his entire career as a Rocket. With that being said, he's injury prone. You can argue that all of the injuries were flukes, but this last one wasn't. He's a giant of a man and those feet take a pounding every night. I don't see the foot problems just going away. T-Mac is also injury prone. I love the guy, but he just isn't the same T-Mac that came to Houston in 04-05. Now is the time to trade him while he still has some value. It is just crazy to have a team built around 2 injury prone players. For a team built around Yao, there must be shooters. That is the number one priority. We have some of those, but besides Battier, they're all one dimensional. We need shooters that can bring more to the table a la Mike Miller. He's not perfect due to the back spasms, but he may be attainable. I think at the 1 through 3, there should be at least slightly above average three point shooters. T-Mac has to go. It's not that I don't like him. Sometimes, I love him. But, with his inconsistent effort throughout the regular season and injury problems, he is the one between he and Yao to go. He is also one of the only Rockets players with any trade value. In any T-Mac trade, Rafer must be included. He's a flawed player and a far below average starting pg. As long as he's with the Rockets, they're doomed to only play as good as Rafer happens to be playing on a given day. We've got too many garbage players. Battier, Hayes, Landry, Scola and Harris are all good players. However, we must get rid of the offensive liabilities. In order to be at the top tier of the league, you must have guys that play on both sides of the court at all 5 positions. Battier, I think, is safe. He's a top 5 perimeter defender in the league and he's solid from range. That's a good piece to have around Yao. Hayes could very likely be on the move. He's great on the defensive end, but he's such a liability on offense that its hardly worth it to have him on the floor. Landry could be on the move as well. I love Carl, but this knee thing has me worried and I'm sure the front office feels the same. He has some value as a young talented athletic 4 man. He's also due for a new contract. Scola is pretty good. He's starting to get it, but he's not a great defender and is only an average rebounder. I could see him being moved as well. Harris is likely safe as he has little value and he's on a bargain contract. I think we could pull Mike Miller for Bobby Jackson's expiring and some young talent. Jackson and Scola, Jackson, Hayes and a first or Jackson, Hayes and Landry would all work depending upon how big Landry's contract is going to be. I'd also like to pull Lowry in that deal. Between Lowry and Brooks, the PG situation for the future would be in good shape. If the T-Mac-Chicago rumors are true, I'd look for something there. T-Mac and Rafer for Hinrich, Gooden and a re-signed Ben Gordon on a reasonable contract would be a nice starting point. Hopefully, we could pull a couple draft picks in a deal like that as well. Some will question Hinrich. His percentages weren't that great this year, but he's a shooter. His shooting percentages would likely be pretty good if he was getting the looks that Rafer does. He's also a great defender and he's on a very nice contract that actually declines each year. On Gordon, I'd prefer a bit more size at the 2, but otherwise he's a great fit. He can shoot the trey and create his own shot. He's also much more efficient than T-Mac is right now while taking similar shots. I see Gooden as a near ideal complement to Yao at the 4. He boards with the best of them and can stroke a mid-range J. A lineup of Hinrich, Gordon, Battier, Gooden and Yao is a team that can space the floor for Yao with shooting and still be solid on the defensive end. You've got one of the best sixth men in the game with Mike Miller coming off the bench along with potentially Scola, Brooks, Lowry, Landry and a lot of the cast left over from this year. It's a much more balanced team with solid players at every position and a superstar center in Yao with a much deeper bench.
Is it just me, or does it seem that the Rocket's NEEDS are always the same? And, essentially, the results are always the same. Somehow, same doesn't seem like progress. Twelve going on thirteen years as the perennial "also ran," playoff fodder. I am not trying to be cute, just straight on. The problem is in the organization, probably the owner. Poor choices usually lead to poor outcomes.
This Rockets team (the TMac-Yao one) big achilles heel has been the Jazz - it is very similar to the problems that the Olajuwon-Drexler led team had with the Sonics. Unfortunately, the TMac-Yao Rockets haven't gotten out of the first round, let alone win a championship, but Morey has to address the fact that for the Rockets to win a title, they have to find a player who can help them beat the Utahs and San Antonios of the world. I don't see us trading Yao anytime soon despite his injury issues and the only way we would get someone who would have that big of an impact in helping us go deep in the playoffs would be to trade McGrady. I don't ever seeing us getting full value for him though due to his injury history as well but at the very least we need to shop him around and see what offers we would get. The trade with the Bulls is intriguing if all we had to give up is McGrady and we got back Gordon (re-signed), Hinrich, and Gooden. Another intriguing trade to me would be dealing McGrady, straight up to GS for Baron Davis. I would love to see us somehow get Chris Douglas-Roberts in the draft but that is probably a pipe dream. Another pipe dream is us somehow getting Gilbert Arenas. If trading McGrady is not an option, I think we should explore every avenue possible in acquring Ron Artest. He would give us the toughness that we are sorely lacking and he is familar with Adelman and his system. Josh Childress is a guy we should look at getting as well and possibly Mike Miller, too. I think that no matter what, the Rockets hold onto Yao, Landry, Scola, and probably Brooks and Battier (although the latter two shouldn't be deemed untouchable). The Rockets need to get whatever they can for Head and Hayes as they are both absolute garbage. It's hard to believe that Head and Deron Williams were teammates at Illinois and that there were many who felt Head was the better player, lol. If we could get an Artest, I would try one more season to push for a championship using the McGrady-Yao duo, but if it fails, even if it is due to injury, I would pull the plug on it and focus on rebuilding and getting younger and more athletic. I've been a fan of the Rockets since the days of the Twin Towers and it seems the Rockets have the same problem every season - not a good enough PG. But it is so hard to get a great PG, you almost have to finish in the lottery and draft one when they are available (like the Hornets did with CP3) or get extremely lucky like the Spurs did with Parker. If the Rockets could somehow wind up with Derrick Rose, that would give hope that maybe the PG problem will finally be solved.
The first thing the Rockets should do is move TMAC to SF and trade Shane Battier. The Rockets need a real offensive player at the SG that can get his own shot(like Mike Miller or J. R. Smith). Then the size of the guards and forwards must be upgraded. The Rockets players are tooo small. Look at all the layups UTAH got uncontested that past two games and how every shot the Rockets took was a severe struggle and mostly off balanced. How may layups did the ROX missed at the bucket due to Utah's length? Too many to count! The Rockets do not need any more spot up shooters like Head, Battier, and Novak, they need players who can take you off the dribble and get their own shot.
I pretty much agree with you on most points, Clutch, but to me the most important move would be to get a legit, long-term 'third option' alas Mike Miller on this team. As for McGrady, if we put him on the market I GUARANTEE you there will be a bunch of teams interested in him. Dallas, Lakers, Nuggets and Bulls are just a few off the top of my head. I think teams like the Nuggets or the Mavs would be more than willing to take a chance on him and they have players/picks to offer back in return. Teams on the 'cusp' that think they need one more guy to get 'em over the hump would probably be interested in taking such a 'gamble', because it would be a short-term one with McGrady's contract expiring in two seasons. So there is no doubt in my mind the Rox could get something for him, but I think they're eventually going to settle on the fact that they would rather 'ride out' the remaining two seasons on his contract and have options to rebuild around Yao (if he's still around and doesn't continue to suffer from foot/leg injuries like all monsters his size have in the past, potentially career threatening)...especially with names like Wade and James being on the market that year. Also, they're in all likelihood would be setting the team back a few years in terms of championship aspirations by doing so. All in all, it should be an interesting off season...I can't wait!
I don't know, it's a bit haste to call the Jazz our 'achilles heel' when we've -- legitimately -- only had one shot at them with a Yao-McGrady team. Moreover, it's even more problematic for me to call them that when -- in fact -- we managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory against them last year, unable to secure a couple of rebounds that, ultimately, spilled doom for us. We choked in that series last year, the Rockets had that game in hand and they lacked the guts to keep the Jazz at bay. So until I see more proof that the Jazz are the new Sonics, I will withhold judgment on that one...
If you're looking for T-Mac to be the type of guy who comes off screens and takes jumpers, then he's not your guy. You're pretty much negating his biggest strength -- decision making with the ball -- by doing that. If that's what you're looking for, then you're looking for a Peja / Mike Miller / Rip Hamilton type, guys who are better shooters and one dimensional -- but in a good way within that type of offense. If that's your solution, then yes, you're definitely going to need to move him because you ain't going to be getting your money's worth.
I see where you are coming from, tiger; however, with the team we have now (the TMac-Yao led one), we will have to go through Utah and/or San Antonio if we ever seriously think of ourselves as a title contender. Maybe this group doesn't think of themselves as a title contender and are just happy to make the playoffs, but I doubt that is the case. I used the Jazz because this is the 2nd straight year that we had to play them in the first round and yea, we are handicapped mightily to play them without Yao. But even if we had him, I don't know if we can match their physicality since Yao isn't that physical of a player in his own right. So, seeing this for 2 years in a row just points out the more obvious - we have to get tougher if we want to go deep in the playoffs with McGrady and Yao being our linchpins. Else, we should just go ahead and pull the plug and start looking at rebuilding by dealing one of our 2 superstars. Seeing that Yao is probably locked in here, by default that means McGrady would be the one to go.
Exactly my point, I don't think the way Tmac plays is conducive to winning playoff basketball. UNLESS he is surrounded by other great players...... But honestly it is hard to get a true reading being that this team is minus Yao......what do you do? I mean Yao and or Tmac has been hurt the last few years, if you are Morey do you gamble that maybe the stars will align and they will stay relatively healthy all year? or Do you try to get other players that fit better around Yao? And hope they stay healthy? I will say one thing. Injuries SUCK BALLS ! DD
You think that was an idiotic post? You and the goofus with the "trade idea" are arguing over whether Dwayne Wade could be traded to the Rockets for Luther Head, Shane Battier, and Rafer freakin' Alston. I had sympathy for you (since you were telling the guy the idea was stupid) until you started saying you wouldn't want Wade because he was "injury prone," as if we could actually get him for that ludicrous (IMO) trade package. I still wouldn't have bothered posting, but I was enjoying this thread... until I had to wade through 18 to 20 posts from you two about the other guy's "idea." In my opinion, you should stop cluttering up a great thread with this junk. Isn't there a trade thread somewhere that is a holding tank for goofy ideas? Do us a favor and find it.
How I see it: The blueprint is busted. A two-star system with a big and a guard is tried and true in the league, but when both players are very injury-prone and one is sending clear signals that he is no longer able to carry the load, a change has to be made. IMO, the Rockets have routinely played their best ball when one or the other star is out over the past 4 years. I feel this relates to identity. With Yao solo, we are a post-centric offense and the team gels around that with defined roles. With McGrady solo, we are more of a scrapping/cutting team and the team gels. When both are on the court, it's my opinion that we get caught trying to flip between these two styles and struggle to find an actual identity that we can focus on and gel. I believe Yao is completely untouchable, for the simple fact that he represents far too much to us when you take everything into consideration. He does share many of the negatives of Tracy: injury-prone, passive leadership, can be taken out of games, etc. But he has also one of the hardest workers on the team and the guy I would rather the Rockets look towards for example. He also can not be questioned in terms of his night-to-night effort. Financially, he is critical for the Rockets organization. He was Rockets-drafted, which means something to me. Yao's near-basket play is the most reliable aspect of our offense, and is a go-to option that we sorely lack at present. It also helps him rack up opponent fouls, which is also a crucial need for a winning offense. Lastly, replacing a franchise center is a tall task in the NBA many teams go for decades without one. To avoid negativity, I'm going not going to list reasons why I feel McGrady is a better candidate to be moved. Suffice to say, I feel Yao is a more important piece to hold on to (above), and that there has been enough evidence over 4 years that we shouldn't expect a season with both guys 100% healthy and leading us to a championship around the corner. It's a best case scenario, but an increasingly unlikely one. If McGrady and the organization agree that he can no longer produce like a franchise player and they need to move forward as such, maybe I am okay with that. But again, I don't think it is likely. I feel the best course of action is to build around Yao. Upper tier secondary guys rather than a second star, with the understanding that the team will need to be balanced enough to weather stretches if/when Yao breaks something else in his over-burdened feet. -->Scola is a keeper. -->Mutombo decides his own future with us. -->Battier, Landry, and Harris are all guys that we should hold on to, but not be close-minded about clinging to. If it comes down to it, they aren't untouchable. -->Hayes, Head, Brooks, and Jackson are all expendable. All are contributing guys but none could be considered linchpins. -->Novak and Woods are inconsequential. Neither are rotation guys and it's not realistic to expect that to change. -->McGrady, I feel, is the key chip that should be moved to turnover the roster. Maybe he goes for a lesser star that is more suited to be a second option guy a la Rashard Lewis or Pau Gasol. Maybe he goes for multiple role players. Does not need to be SG for SG. -->Alston is the other guy we would ideally look to trade, but I distinguish him from the others in that it is crucial not to toss away even a passable point guard without regard. Look around the league. Swingmen are a dime a dozen. Adequate, if undersized, forwards are a dime a dozen. Strong point guards, like centers, qualify teams as haves or have nots. Yes, we need an upgrade at point, but it is easier to worsen ourselves at the position than better it. If Rafer is moved, it needs to either follow a deal that nets us a (legitimately) starting-caliber PG or it needs to be FOR a starting caliber point guard. Targets: Michael Redd (longest of the long shots) Kirk Hinrich Mike Miller Jermaine O'Neal (all out gamble) Mo Williams Mike Dunleavy* Josh Childress I'm not going into actual trade scenarios, or the realism of getting any particular one of those guys mentioned. My general feeling, however, is you want to tweak rather than overhaul...but I think we've tweaked enough to know what we have in the McGrady-Yao era. Evan *I threw up after writing that
