I agree with him to an extent. I'm simply making fun of posters telling him it's stupid to argue about this, yet they continue to argue with him about this. I'm just at a loss as to why Ric offends some of you so much. Like some of you want to keep arguing, it's just a message board and we're just talking about sports, but to me, it seems like Ric's offending you a lot more than he should or I assume he intends to.
Well aware. Hairs well split. No way any players have any feelings about their future yet--THE offseason doesn't begin in several weeks, as such no one has any feelings or thoughts about his future, either. I disagree. Your tone is doing exactly that. You're tapdancing around the point--and you're good at that. Racism is not on par with what happens on a sports franchise's roster. I'm sorry if that offends your sensibilities. No, he's not. Good grief, man. It's a reasonable possibility. Show me where Max said, "They all feel the same way I do. I'm sure of it." You're projecting your own nonsense over-reaching of one silly statement onto other people's opinions, and that is "irresponsible". No, they're stating possibilities about what people may be thinking. It's amazing that you keep dancing around this and not acknowledging it. You're wanting to vilify someone (myself and others) for saying something might be possible. It's over the top, ridiculous, irresponsible, "bat****", "bull****", and every other emotionally charged word you've thrown out there. Your projecting **** on others is OK? Precisely. I didn't fire scud missiles at your possibilities, and neither of us presented them as fact. If you're going to play discussion police, how about blowing up my comment into something it's not and levying emotionally charged and pious accusations into the mix? What good does that do the conversation? Of course. I wasn't making a case to run Carr out of town, but nice strawman anyway.
I assume this may be directed at me. I've been told that I've done something irresponsible, on par with playing the race card. I've been told by Ric that I and others have stated precisely--as fact--what other people are thinking. And then he says that we are "making **** up." Never mind the things I've "said" which are clearly his inventions. Ric doesn't typically "offend" me. I agree with Ric a lot. But I took exception to the way he colored my comment (he's essentially "made **** up"). It's wasting precious bandwidth on Clutch's board; perhaps I'd better just back off. Nothing personal, Ric--I disagree completely with the way you've represented my comment. It's, in fact, a little offensive. But the thread has been derailed and I'm partially at fault, so I'm going to forego responding on this again.
It's funny that this all started because Ric called a poster out for saying he remembered hearing quotes from Texans that proved they were upset with Carr, but he wouldn't actually go find those quotes. Nah, we should just let people argue like that all the time. Makes this place more interesting. (EDIT: Not you msn, but I'm guessing that's why he got into this argument with you in the first place) On a related note, I read where Bob McNair said that the only reason they picked Mario Williams was to give a big **** you to the UT fans. I swear it. Please don't ask me to look it up, though. Then you'll be like Ric.
I wouldn't say offending, perplexing is probably more accurate. This thread has certainly meandered. I was starting to think I had a reading comprehension problem, now I am comforted in knowing I don't
No one's telling him not to argue the topic - that's the exact opposite of what's going on. He's the only one who's saying this discussion is inappropriate because there's no proof. Next time you accuse someone of flopping in the NBA, remember that you if don't have a direct quote about it, you're making assumptions about what the player might be thinking and its irresponsible for you to suggest such a thing.
Do you have proof of this? It's totally irresponsible to be guessing about what New England's philosophy may or may not. It's all conjecture. Not allowed.
No it didn't. Not even close. It started with Ric's response to msn: msn: I think we risk pissing off our receivers corp and losing them to free agency. Ric: i'm sorry, but this is such utter bull****. ...
Of course, you have evidence when people flop like when replays show they were barely touched or not touched at all. This all started when a poster said he'd read a quote by a Texan that indicated they were unhappy with Carr. When Ric asked him to provide the quote, the guy refused. I'm not saying I agree that we can never ever try to guess what a person is thinking and I don't really think Ric thinks that either. I think he's arguing that the only indication that there would be is bad play by Carr. There hasn't been one iota of rumblings from Reliant Park that there are people ready to demand to be traded because David Carr is a Texan. Nor is there one iota of proof that we'll miss out on potential free agents because of Carr.
Sure it did. This started before that quote and possibly in a different thread. But like I just posted, there is not one iota of proof that this is happening or will happen. In fact, just thinking off the top of my head, I can't think of one player in the NFL who has caused teammates to want out for reasons other than personality issues. Regardless, some of you are acting like Ric is being a complete ass. He simply disagrees with some of you and I'm frankly surprised at how some of the posters are reacting to that, all while saying "this is just about sports" and what not.
Wait. Ric's the one who seems offended. He told us he needed to raise the bar on our uninformed, misguided opinions. Those were his words. He followed that up with suggesting that this was akin to labelling someone as racist. Then he follows that up by suggesting that it's "arrogant" to speculate about what a player might be thinking. In the words of Elaine Benes -- "where am I????" I think you're misreading what's gone on here. So I've learned from Ric that leadership doesn't exist in pro sports (which after some time he finally retracted and backed away from)...that my opinions on public figures are arrogant if I haven't actually talked to the people involved and heard it from them (from a guy who runs a website which does just that)...that suggesting a player would want to play elsewhere in the context of a sports web forum is just like suggesting that someone is a racist.
Remember..you are not allowed to speculate. Do you think Yao Ming would like to have a better PG...or better players surrounding him. Or not. Do you think Gilbert Arenas would like to play with Yao Ming...or some other dominant big man. Remember...don't guess, because guessing would be arrogant. You're not allowed to guess or have an opinion. You should throw common sense and all your life experience out the window....because unless you know beyond a shadow of a doubt, it's pure arrogance to state otherwise. thus ended all internet message boards.
No, they could have simply lost balance and fallen over. Sorry - your standard here. You're making an assumption that they fell over to get a foul called. Irresponsible. That was another thread. *This* discussion started with Ric calling msn's comments bull**** and then going on to say its unacceptable to discuss.
My standard? Just because it was another thread doesn't mean it can't be what's caused his reaction in this thread. Like I said, you guys win. Kudos.
this'll teach me to go to lunch... lol. msn, madmax and major - all i've (attempted) to do is invalidate a blatantly false argument; are you dare suggesting i'm the only one among us who have ever done so? you can slice it all kinds of different ways, but the bottom line is this particular contention has no basis in fact. none. zero. not an ounce. no current or former players, coaches or executives have EVER - let me stress that: EVER - made or even hinted at players being dissatisfied playing with david carr. not a single one. it is YOUR opinion, and you're applying it to others: i want him gone, therefore i assume EVERYONE wants him gone. and you don't see the arrogance/danger in that? i sure do, and therefore, to sit idly by and allow it to propagate throughout the community is, by default, approving of an environment based not on any factual foundation but rather wild-ass speculation and innuendo at each poster's discretion. from my perspective, it's a pandora's box; let this slide, and what's the next "reason" for jettisoning carr? there's not already more than enough information to support your cause? msn, you're dismissing what's important to me; it is as important that we try and cut off these kinds of misguided and uninformed opinions about the texans as it is for you to cut off equally misguided and uninformed opinions about drayton mcclane. you feel the subject matter lends your stance more weight (which i don't disagree with), but i am merely offering that the foundation of both - fan ignorance/irresponsibility - is one and the same and therefore, requires the same steadfast resolve to try and knock it down. RM95, solidarity, brother. i owe you a beer. i guess i've underestimated the depth of vitriol aimed in carr's direction. if this were ANY OTHER ATHLETE, i have little doubt these three otherwise astute and respected posters would have my back. perhaps it is a fight i simply cannot win and should retire...
I shouldn't have said I'd stay out. I'm sorry. Damnit Ric, for the last time: It was not presented as an argument or contention of fact. Why in the hell are you repeatedly ignoring this and then pounding on me as if I published the thing as fact in a news article? Why? *sigh* You are the self-proclaimed defender of truth, justice, and responsibility in casual conversation. Kudos. I bow to you as a morally challenged inferior. And, kiss my ass. Bull****. You keep pounding me for "making **** up". Why do you assume my comment comes from "vitriol aimed in Carr's direction"? Good grief man, the comment was not made with any malice at anyone, nor was it presented as fact. It is amazingly ironic that you are the only one allowed to print surmise and conjecture about other people's motives on here. Awesome double standard.
