If, If, If... He didn't seem to be a hindrance last year, coming off a season much worse than this year, when the players in question (in addition to quite a few respected coaches) hopped on board.
And that's fine. At least it's an argument instead of whining about how the discussion is so irresponsible. Of course, you don't actually believe it, so now you're the one spouting bull****. Why not actually come up with an argument you believe in? Or if you don't want to, why not just stay out of the argument and let others discuss it? Why the need to try to silence any talk of what people consider a legitimate discussion?
And I would guess (since we're trying to read the minds of players...hey, at least I'm not attributing a quote to someone with no desire to even attempt to provide evidence) that most potential free agents or those still on the team understand that he's going to have a very short leash if he has one at all.
i have, major - that we, as fans, can do better than this; that we can raise the level of discussion w/o having to resort to such LCD-baiting tactics. it's easy, it's lazy and its irresponsible. what's wrong with challenging people to raise the bar so that those who want only to spill more stupidity and vitriol can't join in the chorus?
Never did and never will, because it's a non sequitur. Your response to this was over the top and arrogant. Enjoy your high horse. And, I think we risk pissing off our wide receivers.
understand, msn - i'm not by any means suggesting carr-baiting is on the same level as race-baiting; it's not a question of content, but intent. imo, the connection between the two ideas is that both provide examples of fans acting irresponsibly. you want to talk non sequiturs... there is NO evidence to suggest players are upset with david carr, regret any decisions they've made because of david carr, or will be leaving because of david carr. NONE. not a single shred. i can't stress this enough. eric moulds has a weekly radio show here in houston and never, not once, did he even remotely hint at any of the ideas presented in this thread. it is literally made up, a false conclusion lumped into the "run david carr out of town" campaign, as if it needs to be supplemented further. so why is it arrogant to try and police that? and why is it any less important than standing up to someone who scans the astros' roster and assumes drayton mcclane is a racist? when a poster recently did just that ("I'm still of the opinion that Drayton McClane is prejudice..."), you responded, "You have a right to that opinion, but it's uninformed, ungrounded, and otherwise stupid." and later say, "All this other bull**** whining you see here is just that. Bull****." arrogant? hell no! i applaud you - you're not going to allow LCD-level garbage to be disseminated freely and without passing through you first. i feel the same way about the texans. there is no shortage of reasons to be upset with the texans and/or want david carr gone. why, then, should we indulge, and therefore encourage, made-up bull****? it's one thing to have an opinion; quite another to draw a conclusion based on absolutely nothing. imo, it's irresponsible. if you think he might drive people away, prove it, show me something - anything - to support it. because all we know right now is that a year ago, coming off a far worse season than 2006, a host of people came here, not the other way around. smith, kubiak, calhoun, sherman, moulds, walter, putzier... sorry for the long rant, but i feel very strongly that the amount of misguided, uninformed opinions being bandied about these days do not need to be supplemented any further. and if that makes me arrogant, so be it. but i'm not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the united states of america. gentlemen! [/humming of star-spangled banner]
i think we're ascribing a ton of self-importance to all this... correct if i'm wrong...but didn't this all start because someone assumed that receivers might not be happy with a QB that only stares down one receiver before dumping off to a TE or RB? i don't know any of the receivers on this team. i haven't invented a mind-reading machine, yet. but i can totally see that as being legit conversation. we do this all the time. when players are free agents we talk about all the factors that would make them want to play here or there. often times it's based on WHO they will be playing with. there is no way you can convince me that a good portion of this team didn't lose confidence in DC this past season. i'm sorry. we all did. why wouldn't they? particularly when they all have far more vested interests...including self-defense when someone starts criticizing them as players. any receiver whose numbers are down will look for 1000 excuses as to why that is...the QB probably ranks in the top 3. pro athletes rarely turn the fingers to themselves, even if they're part of the problem. so this speculation...is it founded on actual conversations with Eric Moulds? no. none of us expected Moulds to get on the Texans radio network and tell the world that he can't stand DC and made a horrible decision coming here to play along side him. in the same way none of us truly expects the Texans to come out and say, "oops, we made a mistake" about the 2006 draft, because you don't throw Mario under the bus like that. but that doesn't mean that people aren't actually thinking that. and it's more than logical to think that if the Texans continue to commit to DC in spite of what happens on the field, that other players will be turned off by that. and seek to go elsewhere.
Thank you for your candor and more amicable tone. The difference is as follows: the race-baiters said, "Drayton is..." and "the Astros are...", in the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary. I made no such distinction. I used words like "think" and "might". I freely admit I pulled something out of my ass--but I presented it as such. And, as opposed to the stupidity of race-baiting: a) David Carr's presence on this roster hasn't rocked our nation's culture and history b) There are *not* mountains of evidence to suggest that every player is thrilled to play with this guy It's irresponsible to put something out there as if it were true, and then defend it smugly and stubbornly in the face of facts. I didn't do that. And, you keep referencing *last* offseason. This year, especially the second half, was pathetic for David. Max states well in his post above: "there is no way you can convince me that a good portion of this team didn't lose confidence in DC this past season." And, I believe it is a plausible concern. How long do *any* of our players want to play with a stiff like David Carr? You act like I said: "Book it. Eric and AJ will leave if DCarr stays. And it will be all because DC stays. It's gonna get ugly. You heard it here first." I said nothing of the kind. And I'll jump on the next race-baiter just like every other race-baiter, not to defend Drayton McLane or the Astros, but because it's so irresponsible in a social sense. It's a game, for crying out loud. You want to see racism, come with me next time I go to East Central Africa or southeastern Europe.
the team's leader in receptions (also the league leader, btw) was a WR, max, not a TE or RB. and he's going to the pro bowl. the team's 2nd leading receiver (by more than 20 receptions) was also a WR, not a TE or RB. 160 receptions went to johnson and moulds; 169 went to everyone else. of the team's 329 completions this year, 55.6% went to a WR; as a means of comparison: % of completions that went to colt wide receivers this year: 55.2. i'm going to have to assume marvin harrison and reggie wayne are probably upset about this and want out of indianapolis. so i guess its up to the fans to do it for him...? wadr, this is the epitome of fan arrogance; assuming players with far greater access and deeper understanding of the situation must obviously still see things the same way you do. who's to say moulds' beef (if he even has one - VERY IMPORTANT POINT) isn't with the OL? or kubiak/calhoun for not involving him more in the offense? or.... who knows since he has not said or hinted there's a problem at all this year. but since we have our david carr blinders on, let's just make something up, assume it's carr's fault and throw another log on his funeral pyre, right? seems fair?
.....in other words, what you fell all over yourself doing when Young's teammates talked about leadership and intangibles last year and you had to discounted it as laughable fantasy (after you "evolved" to the point where leadership doesn't matter anymore), and generally what you do on here all day long.
yes, msn, because this offseason - when we risk driving players away - hasn't started yet. as for MM's statement, i'll counter simply with: and there is no way you can prove that a good portion of this team didn't lose confidence in DC this past season. he's taking his opinion, his preference, and applying it to 53 men that he just assumes thinks the same way he does, despite a lack of evidence, despite a lack of access, despite a lesser understanding of the situation.
OH look out b****es, Ric is once again invoking the ClutchFans BBS Rules of Civil Procedure! Max you better bone up, he has burden shifted and if you don't provide evidence, STAT, you are DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED in the court of his own mind.
Holy crap, I just spit coffee up my nose. I was actually thinking of that scene while reading your post. Weird.
Splitting hairs over this is making it way too important. The Texans' offseason has been underway for quite a while. But the burden of proof is not on either of us--because we didn't state it as fact. Dude, you act this is a freaking court of law and we're about to convict an innocent man of murder. It's a plausible possibility which I mentioned as just that. You've way overplayed this thing. No, he's not. He's giving a possibility. He's not saying it's fact or gospel truth. I'm well aware that we're not privy to even 10% of what guys on the inside of these organizations are--I point it out all the time. Get this: it's a reasonable possibility. That's all anyone here has implied. Your emotionally charged, pious counters are only valid if it were presented as fact. It wasn't. I'm sorry this idea is so offensive to you.
but THE offseason (ie when players can make a decision about where they play, or set in motion a change in who they play for - you know, the foundation of what we're discussing) hasn't, and won't be for several more weeks. all we have is last offseason at this point. msn, no one is treating this as a court of law or on scale with a trial of any kind. we all, i'm assuming, accept that this is a sports forum and that our opinions exist within *this* environment exclusively. yeah, i fully recognize david carr's status pales in comparison to the laws of our land - guess what? so does calling drayton mcclane a racist. you can't pick and choose what's important and unimportant in this forum by virtue of your own investment. this kind of irresponsibility is important to me - that means nothing because YOU'VE deemed it unimportant? no, what's he's doing is assuming EVERYONE agrees with him, and that is irresponsible. there's not even anecdotal evidence to render his opinion anything beyond what it is: another reason to push his agenda. if he wants to cite carr's numbers, his own observations (lack of pocket presence, etc.) - fine. but he (and others) are making assumptions about what people are thinking with no basis for it whatsoever, save for their own opinion. every bit as reasonable as the possibilities i posted, that eric moulds has never been happier or is upset with the OL and not carr, et al. and so my point is - what good does it do the discussion? wouldn't you agree there's FAR more persuasive evidence for running him out of town than this?
I love it. "You're so silly for arguing this Ric, that I'm going to continue to argue with you about it."
1. the team's leader in reception is the one that DC stared down over and over again. no surprise to me. 2. fan arrogance?? it's an internet message board, ric. it's a fan's best guess in a discussion. i think you're reading way too much into this. you've never considered reasons why a free agent would be attracted to or not attracted to a franchise??? i will absolutely tell you that i think it's possible that this franchise committing to DC YET AGAIN after this year may be very unattractive to players currently on the team and free agents who might consider the Texans as a possible landing spot. I haven't interviewed those players...I haven't hooked them up to my mind-reading machine, yet. But it's my guess. 3. is it fan arrogance for someone who never played pro football to start a website about pro football and spout off about what should or shouldn't have been done each Monday morning?? just asking. i'd say, no. i'd say it's commentary and can be taken in its context. all of it is opinion...all of it is our best guess.
do you seriously agree with what he's saying??? i'm thinking with nearly 30,000 posts on a sports message board, at one time or another you've guessed about what a player feels or thinks. is that seriously arrogance? or is it just discussion?
