I don't understand what you're trying to prove Donny... I usually agree with your posts The Texans suck. Everyone gets it.
Quite simply that the Texans deserve credit (notice how I never said "all credit") for the failure of players in their employ. And my main point, that Ric is on the Texans' payroll in charge of internet BBS honor defending.
I don't want this interesting discussion to devolve into a personal aside but... I'm at a lost where I'm denying anything here. Williams was, up to a point, very much the Texans' mistake. I've said as much. I just don't think it's as black and white an idictment of the Texans as you, and others, are very obviously trying to frame it. I'm hoping a better defensive coaching staff, with a definitive scheme and method of operation, will go a long way toward preventing another Tramon Williams from getting away. They have this offensively. They've turned back-ups, undrafted cast-offs and late round draft picks into productive contributors up and down the board offensively, and it's most assuredly because Kubiak has a gameplan on offensive and knows *exactly* what type of player fits what he wants to do. They've *never* had that defensively and that is absolutely, positively Kubiak's biggest black eye as a coach, IMO. I have no idea if Phillips corrects that - but I feel pretty certain he'll do a better job of defining our defensive identity than Smith and/or Bush ever did. I mean - if you think *that's* an agenda-pushing, excuse-making, wildly pro-Texan response, well, you might want to look at your own biases and perspectives here because... I think that's pretty fair and balanced.
But I really don't think anyone is saying that. It's just sorta common for teams to have players cut that move on to another team and get it. The Texans are probably prone to more of those then other teams but not an enormous amount.
I think where we're miscommunicating here is people, and myself, may be confusing "I don't blame them for cutting so-and-so" with "I don't blame them for so-and-so sucking total nut". This whole Jason Babin thing was a real red herring that got us way off track... (way to go, ima) it's a very different situation... Babin had a track record of suckitude, the Texans had just switched to a new coach and scheme... Do they deserve blame for shipping him? Probably not, I would have done the same... do they deserve some blame for his acquisition and his failure? You bet your deep steel blue lovin' butt they do. (just as much as the Seahawks, Chiefs, and Eagles do!) At the end of the day, my issue comes with people trying to pretty-up the failure of the Texans for releasing a player that was talented enough (or possessed the potential) to make the Pro Bowl as a Green Bay Packer. What is the impetus to come in and try to sugar coat that bitter pill? What is there to gain from polishing that turd? What is going through someone's mind when they are trying to clean up behind the Texans mistakes as bad as this one? This secondary is so horrendous there is no more black and white issue I can think of than this. If you think our secondary would not be better off with Tramon Williams, then god help you.
He was not, and this can't be emphasized enough, a Pro Bowl talent *when the Texans released him.* That type of retroactive analysis is where guys like Justice normally wallow, and its completely unfair, IMO. He was an undrafted rookie free agent who obviously showed promise. *Five years ago*. To try and build a case against the Texans *today* because he's now a Pro Bowler and starting in Sunday's Super Bowl is, WADR, cheap. Cheaper to do so in such stark black and white terms without allowing any context into the discussion.
Cheap? You mean holding the Texans accountable for the secondary they built is cheap? Who cares *when* he was cut? You keep floating this perspective stuff... as if it is wholly important... We all *know* Williams wasn't a pro bowler when he hadn't yet played a game in the NFL yet. Do you think Kubiak and Co shouldn't have known that he had the potential to be good enough to keep? Because that is what they are paid for. What we know now is that Tramon Williams had potential, and they released him, while keeping crap, and subsequently sucked because of it. You love to dance around this fact. Mind blowing. It doesn't matter that Williams was a UDFA, it doesn't matter that the Packers have a better D than the Texans, what matters is that the Texans secondary is total crap and more than likely would be better off with Tramon Williams. How you can say otherwise with a straight face is beyond me. And once again, I have no idea why you chose to leap to the defense of the Texans when no one was even attacking them in the first place. But what I do know is that it is very telling of your analysis of the team and the coaches in particular.
Dude, you're playing it like they passed over Jordan for Bowie. I don't "blame" them any more than I blame the 31 other organizations that didn't even give the guy a chance to walk on, or the 31 other organizations who let him sit on his hands for however long before he was finally signed to a freaking practice squad. This discussion is ridiculous.
As long as "Tramon Williams" remains exhibit A, yes. They've made far greater egregious decisions back there. I've addressed this repeatedly. It is 100% - no: 1,000% specious reasoning to assume he would have realized the *exact* same potential in Houston that he has in Green Bay, especially when you consider the very obvious superiority of the Packer's defensive coaching staff. You continue to make this all about the player at the expense of A LOT of other factors. Let's take a different look at this, DonnyMost: Name one young defensive back this regime has successfully developed. The path is littered with failures: Bennett, Molden, Jackson, McCain...... So explain to us how Tramon Williams would have somehow overcome what is obviously a organizational deficiency? So whoever brought it up just thought it was an interesting nugget they wanted to share? This forum isn't overwhelmingly vitriolic when it comes to the Texans? It was in no way whatsoever meant to be a dig at the team? "Hey, guys - the Texans released PRO BOWLER TRAMON WILLIAMS - anyone up for talking about how awesome Wade Phillips is???????!!!?!?!?!?!!!" Come on.
Of course it isn't the end of the world, and it's not Bowie vs. Jordan, but watching Ric do his "but it was a tough cut!" and "it might've been the reason Arian Foster got playing time!" tap-dance is both maddening and hilarious at the same time. Like the sunrise and sunset, I probably shouldn't concern myself with it, because his sunshine pumping will likely continue forever throughout all of the Texans inevitable failures. Haters gonna Hate, Riccers gonna Ric. So yeah, peace accord struck.
Sincerely: Why is it maddening? I understand/respect bottom lines, and I get that's where you're coming from. And ulitmately, you're right. It doesn't matter if the Texans came close, they still lost the game. Cool. BUT... getting close *can* change the discussion, given the context, IMO. It doesn't absolve them of the loss; we're not going to put an astericks next to it; we're not going to pretend they're really, truly 1-0 as opposed to 0-1....... But losing 35-0 is the same as losing 14-10 IYO? You have the same opinion of the coaching staff and/or roster with both results? If we're going to argue the Texans blew it with Tramon Williams, that's fine. But there are a lot of factors that shouldn't arbitraily be dismissed. I think it's a far greater indictment had they seen *nothing* from Williams; had he been a first cut. That he stuck around, showed up on their radar and wound up being a tough cut is far more encouraging, IMO. It proves they're not TOTALLY clueless. They still made a mistake - but its at least encouraging that maybe the next Tramon Williams won't slip through the cracks. And yes: Arian Foster is a pretty decent follow-up rebuttal. I have no idea if Williams' exit caused them to reevaluate - but turning Foster into an All-Pro and rushing champion is at least somewhat redeeming. IMO. If you disagree, cool; I respect that. But I fail to see why its maddening or seen as some rainbow-spouting defense of the Texans.
I think this really cuts to the thick of it. The Texans, especially under Kubiak and on defense, have displayed incredible ineptitude when it comes to evaluating and developing young talent. Kubiak's an offensive guy, doesn't know beans about defense. So he puts together a defensive staff that's underqualified, overwhelmed, or hired on as a favor to their dad. Bush knew his LBs - we drafted and developed well there. Past that, it was a mess. Crystal clear that no one in Reliant had the foggiest clue when it came to DBs. Additionally, Kubiak seems to let his buddy system (as opposed to merit) bleed over to the depth chart. Fumble all they could, Brown and Slaton couldn't lose their jobs last year.....and Foster was right there. Okoye has been atrocious since his rookie year, but nothing seemed to warm his seat. Nolan should have taken over Wilson's starting role before the bye, but Kubiak only started giving him minutes at all because of Wilson's injury and even then wedged Barber in front. The staff is responsible for the depth chart. They're responsible for developing the talent. On defense, they've been embarrassingly incompetent. I think it's perfectly fair to add Tramon Williams to that list of failures. You can coach up a DB with amazing physical tools. You can't athlete up a "more ready" CB without NFL caliber quickness. Let's hope and pray that the evaluation and development of defensive guys completely cuts out Kubiak and his buddy hires going forward.
Kubiak's greatest failing, IMO, as a head coach. And it's the reason I've talked myself into Wade Phillips. He may not be THE answer but I think he's going to be a light-years improvement over what they had and he'll absolutely address a REALLY big problem. What I don't understand is how/why Kubiak continued to hire guys without an obvious defensive philosophy when it runs counter to his very obvious religious adherence to an offensive philosophy. You can rip Kubiak up and down but look at the players who have thrived in his system: two undrafted FAs (Foster and Leach), two career back-ups (Schaub and Walter), two mid-round draft pick (Slaton and Daniels)... he knows *exactly* what he's looking for and, man oh man, does that cover half the battle. So why did he let Smith and Bush fling poo against the wall for five years?? I'll give him a muligan on Smith. But after he failed, how he didn't hire Mike Nolan will forever stagger me. Bush was such a colossal mistake... I can't even wrap my head around it. And frankly, the ultimate blame there goes to McNair, who should have put his foot down *then* and said, "No" to another inexperienced hire. I know people think I'm full of Texan sunshine, and maybe I am - but I think Wade Phillips, on paper, is such a massive step not in the right direction, per se, but above where they were, that I think it's going to make a big (positive) difference.
You can't talk about how great an offensive mind Kubiak is without mentioning his horrible playcalling, which - in and of itself - seems to lose us 3 to 4 games every year. We'll have to wait and see. It seems like every year I say to myself "THIS is the year we finally turn it all around!" and we never do, so I'm not falling into that trap this year. It's always something. Bad defense one year, bad running game another year, bad red-zone offense another year...what's it going to be next year that causes us to go 5-7 AGAIN?
This reminds me of that Friends episode where Rachel and Ross are fighting, and it causes Chandler to do some stupid dance in the snow to put the spotlight on him instead of the stressful situation. We're ALL Chandler right now.....forced to get into ridiculous arguments that really have no bearing, all because our organization is an irrelevant, mediocre turd.
Well it's nice to hope and all that but with Phillips, I'm not so sure. I just don't think that the Wade Phillips you are getting is that same Wade from years ago. He certainly wasn't last year with the Cows. The offense was a total mess due to the Romo injury and lack of quality OL (Thanks to Jeral Jones) but it was Wade's defense that crashed and burned and ultimately took them down. And Coach Fix-it, who had sole control over that defense, had no clue as to what to do when folks figured out his defense. That is what bothers me more than anything with him being perceived as the "answer" to the Texans' defensive woes: he had better personnel in Dallas than what he's inheriting in Houston yet he failed to get them to play at a high level. They actually got better after Wade was fired which was a big red flag for me. In fact, up here, all of the talk is about the need to "fix" the defensive mess that Wade left behind. That's a key reason why Rob Ryan was hired: to undo the mess Wade left behind. For sure, he'll probably make them better. After all, when you are dead last and the worst of the worst there's nowhere to go but up, right? But the question I see no one here asking is will whatever improvement he brings be good enough to turn them into a legit contender in the division? Before they can get to the playoffs, they have demonstrate that they can compete in the division and win more than 1 or 2 games against their AFC South rivals. Now, don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that Wade will fail here as he now has the opportunity to resurrect himself in the same manner as Dom Capers did at Green Bay. But unlike Dom, he'll have to do so within the confines of one of the worst organizations in the league - one that from the owner on down is absolutely clueless (and I'm being extra kind here). To me, the amount of improvement rests heavily on Coach Fix-it getting the types of players he needs to make his defense work and there in lies the rub. They (Texans) will be going back to a 3-4 after running (and retooling) for a 4-3 defense for years. At this point in time, they don't have the players for a 3-4 and it will be critical that they retool fast. Who's going to make the player evaluations and decisions? Those personnel guys leftover from the C&C Idiot Factory? Wade? Smith? Boobiak? I think it's safe to point out here that the Texans' track record in finding defensive players is not exactly one that would lead us to believe that this time they'll get it right. I think I will believe in Wade, Boobiak and the rest when I can SEE tangible results out on the field. Until then, I'm reserving judgement. But again: it's always nice to have hope. Ha Ha Ha! Texans' sunshine? You? As for Wade, all I can say that if you like him as the DC, you'll love him as the 3rd Houston Texans' head coach. After all, he'll come highly recommended with the coveted Bum Phillips' Seal Of Approval.
Hey! It's parade time in Houston! They won 3 games against the AFC South! Woo-hoo! Houston football fans are truly blessed to have the Texans. Take that Dallas cowsheep fans! The Texans won 3 division games while your mighty Dallas Cowboys (with their "Got Five" t-shirts) only won 3 division games. That'll teach you arrogant a-holes to look down on the Texans. Sorry Cat. I have just about had my fill of Super Bowl week up here in Dallas with all of the lame attempts by the local media to interject a Cows perspective. I have actually heard these idiots try to make fun of Houston because of the Texans. Somebody needs to show them the final 2010 standings as the Cows went - let's see now that would be 6-10. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, eh?
