Ric, Lance Z of 1560 was on the Williams cut when it happened. And I'm sorry, but this team deserves to be criticized for cutting a guy who was showing any promise in practice and keeping the guys they did who have been terrible. Consistently terrible.
He was undrafted so all teams passed on him once. And then when he was available after the draft, all teams in the NFL except the Texans passed on him when he signed with us. Then we cut him. I dont understand the argument. It's obvious if he stayed with the Texans, with our terrible coaching and scheme, he would have never ever EVER turned into anything other then a sack of ****. Coaching up a raw DB into a Pro Bowler!? AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!1!!!! We cant even get our first round corner to "stand" when covering receivers bro.
It's funny how all these guys like Lance Zierlein and Matt Jackson claim that they knew Tramon Williams was going to be good after he became a Pro-Bowler with the Packers. He was undrafted from Louisiana Tech. Nobody wanted this guy. After the Texans cut him, nobody even signed him to their practice squad until the Packers did in Week 13. He is a stud now but I am not going recognization to Zierlein or Jackson who want some type of credit .
Yeah, I can bust on the Texans for a LOT of things, but this isn't one of them. If you're going to bust on them for this, you have to do the same thing with Jason Babin. Remember Jason Babin? We couldn't cut his ass fast enough. Now look at him. Were we wrong for cutting him then? Since he's good now? Sometime players just 'get it' later on in their careers. It happens all the time. You can't bust on every team that gave up on said player along the way. Hell, Rich Gannon was cut by 3 teams and meandered around the league for 15 years before he won the MVP in 2002.
Good point, they deserve crap for that too. Obviously the guy is capable of producing, but Capers, and to a lesser extent Kubiak, couldn't make it happen. Whether it is because they couldn't "coach him up" (i.e. get the talent to its potential) or they had a bad scheme/system for him is irrelevant, the end result was failure.
I wasn't even busting on them for this. But, yes, I do think they deserve to be busted on for things like this and getting nothing out of Babin, for acquiring Philip Buchanon and getting nothing out of him, for all the mediocre crap free agents they sign who gave them nothing, etc. I think all of it spins together to paint a picture of a team who has no idea how to evaluate and coach talent. Lance Z also relayed the story on air that when Kubiak joined this team Jason Babin asked him what he needed to do to make the roster and Kubiak basically told him that Babin wasn't one of his guys and he had zero chance to earn a job with him. This apparently has led Babin to hold a really negative view of Kubiak. (understandably) I know Ric, I know. None of it is true, the Texans are going to be better going forward anyway, they've learned their lesson, Wade is going to change things on defense, etc. etc. etc. Don't get arthritis responding to me. I know I'm wrong.
*This* was the whole point. Regardless of how we feel about Tramon Williams, no one was attacking the Texans... and Ric comes flying into their rescue... that was the real issue here, and raised some eyebrows and elicited a few lulz from me and a few others.
Okay, kind of going off on a tangent here, but Babin is the perfect example of what I'm talking about. The guy gets drafted in 2004, does NOTHING for the Texans, NOTHING for the Seahawks, NOTHING for the Chiefs, NOTHING for the Eagles, then finally has his first good year with the titans 6 years and 4 teams after being drafted. I challenge anyone to find a single post on this forum after Babin was traded to the Seahawks saying we made a mistake and gave up on him too early. We all wanted him gone because, at the time, he SUCKED ON WHEELS. I'm just saying that sometimes - for whatever reason - a player improves on his own and you can't blame every team that gave up on him along the way. Babin is a more extreme example of this than Williams, I'll give you that. It took Williams only 2 years to 'get it' instead of 6 years like Babin. I can't believe I'm actually defending the Texans. It's been over a year since I've defended anything they've done. WTF is wrong with me?
I don't think that's "obvious" **at all**. Houston wasn't his only stop prior to Tennessee. The Eagles found him useless as well. As did Seattle and Kansas City. There are SO many factors that go into these guys succeeding that to boil it down to "The Texans suck!!" is ridiculously simplistic. And then to not allow any gray area discussion is frustrating, IMO.
The Seahawks, Eagles, and Chiefs inability to "coach him up" or put together a scheme for him to succeed does not excuse the Texans same mistakes. I do not get why people think that is a viable reason to shift blame around. It isn't.
It's very obvious, because it just happened. If Babin wasn't capable of producing, be it through scheme or potential, then he wouldn't have done so. But he did. The evidence is on film and paper now. No refuting it.
Ima you are correct of course, I can't even believe it got to this, arguing about Babin. They don't deserve much blame for Babin.
So am I to understand that you all think it is 100% Jason Babin's fault he did not succeed when he was here, and the Texans are not to blame whatsoever? Because my argument *does not* preclude the players themselves from blame. But what is lost in all of this is that *it is the coaches job* to 1) get the players to reach their potential and 2) make sure they get players who have a better chance of reaching their potential. So when it comes down to it, if a coach acquires a player who sits on his ass and doesn't get better and reach his potential, there is automatic and undeniable blame to be placed on those coaches for acquiring that player in the first place.
So you don't think there's any possibility that the guy just improved on his own? It was all because of coaching?
...and it happens in *every* organization. There's lots to bash the Texans for, but this is a little silly.
I love this "but everybody does it once in a while" line of reasoning. Yeah, everybody poops... doesn't absolve you from blame.
Because, Donny, it might be indicative of other factors you continue to universally discount, especially when you're talking about four very different organizations all drawing the same conclusion. What if football wasn't his top priority, for instance? Is that the Texans' fault?
You keep saying I'm "discounting" things... but I'm not. Where did I say those things weren't a factor? Can you show me that? Of course I know that different teams and situations have a lot of affect on how a player plays. That does not absolve them of blame for failure. Uhh, yes, it is. Because they shouldn't have drafted somebody whose top priority wasn't football or wasn't going to be football in the first place. Can coaches predict the future? Not 100% of the time, no. But that's part of their job and what they're paid correctly more often than not. To pick who will succeed and who will fail. They failed at that, and have subsequently have failed to produce a winning football team. You cannot absolve them of blame (and that does NOT preclude the player themselves from blame either!), no matter how hard you try.
Really? I think it is spot on, this organization sucks in every sense of the word, that isn't refutable
