With regards to Sam, I'd bring up Jackson Jeffcoat, who went undrafted, as an indication that perhaps Sam's draft position in the 7th round isn't a travesty. Both put up similar numbers in good conferences. Both are guys that don't fit a prototype for an NFL position. Sam is a 3rd down only player, and I don't know that anybody can visualize how he will become much more than that. After trying and failing at LB drills at the combine, everybody was saying round 5-7 which is where he ended up. His waist and hips are very tightly muscled, and he simply can't turn them smoothly or with great range of motion. At the same time, as physically developed as he is, his frame won't handle more muscle to enable him to stand up to the run. The whole "gay" thing probably helped him with some who thought they could capitalize on it, probably hurt with some who didn't like it, but on the whole, I would argue the two probably came close to negating each other.
Previous SEC DPOY's weren't "guys like him" which is why they went in the first two rounds. He was an nonathletic tweener who was a hustle player that simply doesn't have the physical talent to make it in the big time.
Also, suggesting that I have some kind of "agenda" when it comes to this issue is borderline r****ded so you need to check that BS.
Cat, come on. You are biased clearly as a Mizzou guy. Find me an expert that has said he should have gone higher than he did that isn't using the article as some sort of self righteous stump speech. I've not heard a single expert (I mean film guys, not Kiper types) who have been overly complimentary. His tape was terrible, his workouts were terrible, his measurements were terrible. I'm actually happy he was drafted for the story of it, but there was no travesty in where he was drafted nor would it have been a travesty had he gone undrafted. He's a fringe player at best that may be valuable on special teams do to hustle, but a situational pass rusher he is slow. He's slower than Tom Savage, the QB we just drafted. He ran the 40 a little faster than Schaub!
They said the same thing about him out of high school, when he was a 2-star recruit by Rivals. He ended up as the DPOY in the toughest conference in America. In case you haven't figured out, the SEC is the big time. Look, I'm not saying he's going to be a great player. It's just that there's a sliding scale. It's not all production, but it's not all "talent", either. It's a marriage between the two. I agree with you that Sam's talent isn't what the previous SEC DPOY's were, which is why he wasn't ever considered a top 50 pick. However, his on-field production is enough that he's clearly not someone who shouldn't be drafted, either. There's a balance you have to find.
Plenty of people have had good college careers, even in the SEC, but went undrafted for various reasons.
Hopefully this doesn't. come off as racist... When I saw Sam kiss his boyfriend, my honest to God thought was that, in the same way that ugly white chicks have a reputation for being Kryptonite for black men, it was oddly comforting at at a scrawny, ugly white dude was apparently Kryptonite for Sam. Sam's boyfriend was punching way above his weight class.
I hope he thrives as an NFL player. It seems like I missed the the other side of the argument though, because I don't think he was drafted BECAUSE he was gay either. I think he is a fringy type NFL player and for players like that it just comes down to whether a team sees a role for them, how familiar they are with them, etc. There are other players in this thread that people can't believe went undrafted. You even have a clown post saying the Texans UDFAs are better than the draft we had. Lots of players who are fringe NFL players go either way as the draft starts wrapping up.
Tell me how valuable DHB's 40 time has been. Furthermore, you seem to be a little confused. Where I jumped in this thread was when the village idiot argued that Michael Sam wouldn't have been drafted if not for being gay. That's ****ing stupid. CBS/NFL Draft Scout, generally the best site I've come across for draft scouting, had him as a 5th rounder in their final evaluation. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1700418/michael-sam Take a look. There's no self-righteous stump speech. It's evaluating Sam, the football player. Many scouts had him in the 5th range. He was actually in the top 90 prior to coming out (admittedly the scale was tilted in favor of production, at that point).
Not to nit pick, but wasn't Sam essentially one vote away from not being DPOY since he was tied with Moseley? Would this conversation be taking place if he was runner up?
There's a difference between merely being good and being the Defensive POY in the SEC. He was really, really freaking good.
It's been pretty valuable for him as it's the only thing that's kept him in the league. See my post above yours. I agree with you, I missed that side of the argument.
The argument was he was really, really freaking good in a few stretches against lesser opponents that added up to impressive counting stats. But I'm not saying he was a bad player, but he is not the athlete that normally is associated with that award, and in the NFL, ultimately, Rudy doesn't make it on the field.
That's the only reason I jumped in this thread -- because Bobby and his idiocy actually tried to make it seem like Sam should've gone undrafted if not for being gay. I don't think Sam is a world beater just because he went to Mizzou. He's got his flaws, and I can't see him being more than a marginal NFL player. I kept my mouth shut yesterday when a lot of folks were skeptical about him. But acting like the only reason he got his chance is due to his being gay? Sorry, that's just ignorant and/or agenda-driven.
I agree with you. He is getting his chance because he is a hard worker, he's intelligent, he had strong production, he has a decent first step. Coaches like guys like him late in the draft that they think will bust it on special teams. They also like guys who won't be kept off the field by their lack of effort or studying the playbook. But, they take guys like that at the end of the draft. Edit: Where I disagree with you is that you think it is ridiculous if he hadn't been drafted and you keep mentioned his DPOY award. That literally means nothing. Just because it's worked out in the past that those guys were NFL athletes that got drafted doesn't mean it always will. There's always been a player drafted from Texas. Until this year. That streak was longer than the SEC DPOY streak and was harder to break due to the numbers. But it got broken.
Absolutely, and that's why I'm not saying he deserved a 1st/2nd round grade like those other guys. He doesn't have the usual level of athleticism, and that matters for his projections. But at the same time, that level of production against an SEC schedule does give him a floor, and at a minimum, that's the type of guy who earns a look in the mid-to-late rounds. I think he might've gone a round or two higher if not for all of this, but in the end, as a Mizzou guy, I'm not upset. Sam was never going to go high enough to guarantee his roster spot. He's going to have to earn that at camp by outplaying other guys, whether he was a 5th or a 7th. In the end, Sam got relatively fair treatment for what he deserved. The only thing I object to is the nonsense that he only got that BECAUSE of his being gay. That's ridiculous.
I don't think it'd have been ridiculous if he hadn't been drafted. The margin between even a 3rd/4th round guy and many UFAs is razor thin. Hell, a week or so ago, a guy I love reading had Andre Hal as the best CB in the draft... and he went in Round 7. There's that much variance. The only thing I find ridiculous is the idea that Sam only got his draft selection because he was gay. The reason I harp on the DPOY is to show his level of production. This wasn't just a guy at the college level. He was really, really good, all in the toughest conference in football. That doesn't inherently make him a 1st or 2nd rounder, I agree with you... but in my opinion, it's enough to make him a viable prospect in the mid-to-late rounds, regardless of what the Combine shows.
I just remembered the time a few years ago when, leading up to the draft, The Cat went off on everybody who was worried about the fact that his fellow Mizzou alum Aldon Smith was bat **** crazy, and this starts to make sense.
