I just wish they ran that first play before the 2min warning. gave the Colts all the time in the world to challenge. This one hurt. A lot.....and the Moats fumble...PUKE! Nothing till MNF...which seems like an eternity away. ugh.
i always find that to be a double-edged sword: if you hurry to run the next play, you're more or less admitting you think the call is suspect and giving your opponent a reason to throw the flag. frankly, i have my doubts ANYONE thought it was a fumble until the break at the 2MW. also, keep this mind: if you run a hurry-up, results be damned play there and don't score, it's suddenly 3rd-and-goal - that's a REALLY big deal and people would have been out of their minds if they had needlessly wasted a down because moats was, in fact, out of bounds and/or down. i think it was just an unforntunately-timed gaffe, right at the 2MW. you certainly can't pin that on kubiak - UNLESS his guys were screaming to run a quick play and he fell asleep on it. but schaub said this morning no such message came down from the booth. again, i don't think either team had any idea it was a fumble until the 2MW break.
When fans can see coaching errors, I wonder what other coaches see? The one constant on this team is questionable coaching, the signs are there: poor clock management, mishandling challenges, bad play-calling (some real head scratching calls out there yesterday), etc. Maybe it is largely execution, but it doesn't look like it. There are breakdowns at critical times and it isn't all on the players. I am "just a fan," but in my humble opinion the Texans' games appear to be poorly managed.
I pin that definately on Kubiak and whoever is in charge of rewatching every play. That group of minds is TERRIBLE! IIRC, CBS showed a replay immediately after the play happened and the analysts were already stirring up ideas that it was a fumble, they cut back to the game and showed Schaub and the Texans non chalantly lined up waiting for the clock to get to the two minute warning. The Texans were already lined in formation and let about 7 seconds tick off, I'm sure they could have ran something within those 7 seconds without the Colts throwing the flag. You have got to run a play there and take that challenge away from them! The ball was on about the two or three yard line i think, run a running play up!! Your probably going to run one anyways after the two minute warning JUST DO IT! If you get stuffed and you lose a down, SO WHAT at least you get another down to play with. I am so mad at Kubiak for this, he has to hold himself accountable the way he holds his running backs accountable for not holding onto the ball. Here's some quotes from ESPN.com blog “That play turned out to be a perfect play for those guys, not so good for us,” said downtrodden cornerback Dunta Robinson, whose team is now 0-8 in Indy. “A lot of guys on the sideline were saying, ‘Run another play, run another play.’ Obviously our staff didn’t think it was a fumble. Those are things you’re not too sure about. I think it could have gone either way. We’re at their house, and that play went their way.” Gary Kubiak and his people saw no cause for alarm. They could have called for Matt Schaub to run another play before the warning, either washing away the Colts’ chance to challenge or forcing Caldwell into a quicker decision than he would have liked, when he might have hesitated risking a timeout. “We didn’t even know until the play had been stopped and it got to the two-minute warning that there was even an issue,” Kubiak said. “Then somebody in the press box said, ‘I think they’re looking at the ball right here.' We thought that Ryan was out of bounds. But the way it was explained to me was that the ball did come out, nobody argued that. The players who play the game were BEGGING for a play to be ran, Kubiak and his ring of dumbasses had their thumbs up their ass. I'm feeling there is going to be alot of behind the curtain backlash from the players for this, a feeling that is well within their rights
I read that this morning...My first instinct was to run the play before they let the clock run out, but I'm no coach... Tough way to lose, but this is a great time for a break...
that's pretty common. and i admit, it'd be a mistake to outright not listen to players - players actually involved in the play. but dunta and every other texan on the sideline were some 50+ yards away. they couldn't see a thing. you had to process a whole bunch of information against a ticking clock; difficult, and unfortunate, situation - and i have a hard time holding anyone's feet to the fire.
i sincerely doubt it; they need to look no further than the nearest mirror if they want to gripe and complain - kubiak didn't fumble the ball that set the sequence in motion; he didn't commit 4,000 penalties and he sure as hell didn't shank a 42-yard FG. they had an opportunity to render that moment moot and repeatedly fell down. i would be willing to bet neither team had any inclination it was a fumble until they got to the 2MW and had a chance to watch the replay over and over. it was just an unfortnately-timed miscue.
I generally agree and was pleased with yesterday's performance, but at the time I was cursing Matt Schaub like he was David Carr. I was happy to hear him say that the directive to let the clock go to the 2 minute warning came from Kube's To me it was pretty obvious on first viewing, but I do have a pretty large tv I'm watching.
the first replay, as i remember it, was more, "wait a second..." - far from conclusive. i don't think the colts challenge and risk a TO under "normal" time conditions. the 2MW blew everything to h-e-double hockey sticks, though - it gave them 30-60 seconds, if not more, they ordinarily wouldn't have had.
In addition, the Texans wanted to run the clock down anyway. If they didn't realize it was a fumble, my guess was they call a running play on 1st down after the 2 minute warning to either eat up clock or Colts timeouts, so they have less time for their 2-minute offense. If it wasn't a fumble, the worst thing you could do is run a play and give the Colts more time to work with on offense.
Wasn't there someone upstairs that saw the replay immediately like the general audience ? It would have been nice for someone to relay the message that hey we need to run a freaking play cuz it's really close.
i think every team does, yes - but remember: they were acting against a ticking clock - i don't have anything but memory to go on here but i know the moats play began at 2:30 - if you figure... 10-15 seconds for the actual play, you're looking at them having to make an important, potentially game-changing decision in 15-20 seconds. and if they DO make the decision to hurry and run another play, they tip off the opponent that something's amiss... it's a real dicey, difficult situation and i think for so many to focus on it as if that's the reason the team lost........ (btw, tangent: why did the clock not reset to whatever time was on the clock when the colt recovered/stepped out of bounds? just a weird play/call all the way around.)
they should have run a play. my 9 year old caught it and was screaming at the tv, "snap the ball! snap the ball!!" the players on the sideline were screaming it after watching the replay on the big screen. the commentators caught it. the guys in the booth working for the Texans SHOULD have caught it and communicated down to get the ball snapped. we've had this problem before. it's really not that complicated. it's not why they lost the game. no one said that. their gameplan was fine, generally, they just lacked in execution..and they shot themselves in the foot with stupid penalties.
there's another thread that breaks down the play, including cbs' coverage of it. here's how the author (he claims to have watched the play "about 50 times") describes the immediate aftermath of the fumble: "The CBS broadcast showed two quick replays and on the second one, color analyst Solomon Wilcots suggested that Moats fumbled while in bounds." this is how i remember it, too - the first replay looked somewhat suspicious but nothing overt; so much so, no one said anything. the second one looked more troubling but still not overtly conclusive. even wilcotts "suggested" it was a fumble; ie he wasn't sure and did so only on the *second* replay. the author claims the play ended with 2:24 on the clock and that the texans were lined up and ready to run the next play at 2:14. that's :10 seconds to make a pretty important decision and it was not - hell, it's STILL not conclusive what, exactly, happened. i think it's difficult to do much with this beyond chalking it up to an unfortunate convergence of bad luck/timing. were it not for the 2MW, giving indianapolis an extra 30-60 seconds to study the play, i don't think they would have challenged it. kubiak said as much in his press conference: "I can't speak for the Colts, but I'm not sure they knew there was an issue there, neither ("neither", coach? really?), until we got to the two-minute warning." i know they've had a few blown replay decisions in their tenure, and maybe a more seasoned staff (or QB) runs a play there regardless. i just think the decision, and the time given to make that decision, makes it an extremely difficult situation and thus, it's hard to really point any fingers. (except, of course, at moats for fumbling. but hell, even he didn't think it was a fumble.)
fair points, and i don't want to make too much of it. i just think when in doubt...even if it's marginal doubt...snap the ball. you're on the one yard line. if you burn a play, you can live with that. what you can't live with is the alternative.
btw, i should note: i obviously and definitely agree that in hindsight they should have run a play. i'm discussing only in that very specific moment, with the clock ticking and a lot of different scenarios floating around, that it wasn't necessarily an easy decision. one more note, in case people don't know: the team replay officials see the same feed we're seeing; they don't have some special contraption that allows them to see multiple angles, etc. that's why the 2MW was such a massive factor. had there not been a game-mandated clock stoppage, the colt officials would have gotten just those two replays, and would have had 15-20 seconds to make a pretty critical decision. everyone sees things differently so there's no telling what they saw. i didn't think there was any doubt he was down and/or out of bounds. only the 2nd replay looked suspicious and even then, i wasn't even close to being sure. bad timing.
Bad timing or not, you could tell the Colts staff was preparing to challenge that before the 2 minute warning came up. I'm tired of this coaching staff being outfoxed like that. Whoever the Texans replay guy is, he is being paid too much.
