Factual to me MSN. That's what I'm seeing from him and I feel that I should be seeing more given the circumstances of his draft position. And where did you get the impression that I'm projecting your comments onto MW's disposition? Did you misunderstand my response? Those teams do have talent and a good system of doing things but they also have that burning desire to be the best and that's what separates them from the rest. That's what I want to see coming from MW or is that too much to ask of a number one draft pick? So I suppose that you have only been listening to Kubiak's appraisals of Mario while blocking out that of others. Questions about his attitude go all the way back to his days at NC State so they should be considered as a legitimate issue for discussion here. Why thank you! Actually, I consider you Brilliant as well... Again, please show where I was "b****ing" about that draft. I was merely responding to your responses and restating my position on the decision to pick Mario with the top pick - an opinion I've expressed to you on more than one occasion. Also you failed to note that I'm giving him 3 years before I give up on him.
I noted that others struggle against good competition, and your response was, "That's the kind of attitude that..." while continuing to to discuss MW. Perhaps I indeed missed your train of thought entirely. No, their talent and coaching separates them from the rest. Yes. Asking him to live up to some dreamed-up mythical hyperbole of grit, desire, and fire that lives in your head based upon the performance of the top franchises in the league is too much to ask from your number one draft pick. In the real world, we look at performance, attitude, and work ethic. Unless you are on the inside, you have a clue about *one* of those. Not being on the inside, I have a clue about only *one* of those myself. Nope. I've listened to quite a few. In fact, Kubiak has been harder on him than his teammates. A lot of the mediots who decry Williams do it in the same breath as they mention his draft status or the Texans' passing on Reggie Bush while not stating a thing about his actual play of the position. Do I immediately dismiss that mindless drivel? Of course I do. And, so should you. Sure. But I don't see any evidence of a lacsadaisical effort on his part here. I'm sorry. I don't. I see that he's not Freeney in his prime yet, but I don't see laziness or him "taking games off". So sue me. By having to dredge it up every time someone mentions Williams, that's how. You disagree with their drafting a "project player". Fine. Understood. I get it. We all get it. Now can we move the freak on already?? I missed on the three years thing, btw.
No question Mario was in another gear yesterday. Would definitely like to see that more often. All yesterday proved is how capable he is. It needs to be a more consistent impact. Even though it was against a backup, I think it was still indicative of what he is capable of....now he just has to keep that intensity up more often.
It's OK. No harm, no foul. We agree here however I still maintain that having the WILL to conquer and be the best is just as vital. All you need to do is to look at everybody's favorite whipping boy (David Carr) to understand the point I'm making here. I'm asking nothing of the sort from Mario - I merely want to see him put forth a consistent enough effort for an entire season so that all of these issues can be finally laid to rest. Like I said, if we are still having this discussion next year then something will be very obvious and very wrong. Do I have my doubts about him? Oh yeah. I hate to say this but he reminds me of John Matuzak (without the hell-raiser personality of course) another physically gifted DL drafted by the Oilers who never quite lived up to his promise when he was here. But I feel that I'm being fair when I say that I have found his overall performance thus far to have been disappointing. Well I have to take anything that Kubiak says with a grain of salt because he has to justify his decision to take Mario no. 1 so of course his official and public position is going to be that he made the right decision. As for all of the others, I realize that they blow hot and cold depending on the public mood so I'm not entirely in agreement with their positions. I also have no position on the MW vs. RB or the MW vs. VY debate because I wasn't in favor of picking either player in 2006. I am focusing entirely on his effectiveness on the football field and to date I have found it to be spotty at best. Never said it was his lack of effort that bothered me only his attitude and desire to be the best. I also never implied that he takes games off (like Randy Moss used to do) only that he has far too many games where he makes very little impact and looks like just another guy out there. Well, if you (and others) can come to the realization and would accept the fact that I'm not out to bash Mario because of some personal agenda, then I wouldn't feel the need to keep restating my position. I am merely a dispassionate observer nothing more. I am not emotionally vested in the RB-MW-VY debate (and controversy) and I have no personal axe to grind here. All I'm doing is observing Mario and relating what I'm seeing from him to what I've seen from other players in the past. I know that I may be critical of his play but I also believe that I am being very fair on the subject. BTW, as I'm writing this, VY aka The Chosen One has just thrown another INT with 1:54 to go in the game against Denver. The Titans are getting spanked 34-20 so I'm getting ready for all of the upcoming PLAYOFF talk concerning the Texans.
You and I place far different significance on this phenomenon. Mostly because I don't believe you can tell someone's "WILL" from what is seen on the field. I think you are, when you say things about his attitude and his "will to win", which frankly, you can't get from a box score or really even from watching him play. Unless you're in the locker room, I believe you (and I) have no idea whatsoever about these things. We disagree, but I think our standards are different. My standard is a developing DE. Yours is, "he was first pick of the draft dammit!" And you don't know anything about these things. All you see is Mario lined up against (usually) the best offensive tackles in the league and many, many double-teams. All the talk does run together. For every time I've mixed you up with a guy who's bitter over the draft, my bad.
Hillboy, I see you repeatedly questioning Mario's desire and motivation. You seem to think he takes plays, or even games off. But the only thing I ever see you give as concrete evidence is statistics from a box score. Can you point any specific plays or games where you saw Mario merely give up, not trail a play, play with little effort? It can't be denied that the guy does have a roller coaster impact on the box scores. That's apparent. But whenever I actually sit down at a game, either live or recorded, and focus on Mario play in and play out, I never see any difference in effort being put forth. I just see games where he makes good moves, sheds blockers well and blows up plays, and games where he gets blocked, locked up and trails plays. But he is ALWAYS hustling, when I watch. I'm just curious if you can give a game in particular where you felt like he was taking plays off.
in fairness, this has been a knock on Mario for a while. it was what was said of him in college. it was listed as weakness #1 in every draft analysis i read of him.
Interesting but wasn't this one of the main reasons nearly everyone soured on David Carr - because he lacked the desire, leadership and will to win? If that can be true about Carr, then why not Mario as well. Let me put it this way: Ask yourself: Is this even a question mark about Demeco Ryans at all and if not why? OK, then if we aren't going to or can't use his numbers or his play on the field to evaluate his performance, then we might as well extend the same courtesy to RB, VY and even the late lamented DC and start using subjective criteria to gauge their performances on the field. Right, I'm mostly sticking with a personal belief in that you don't use the number one pick on a project player in the hope he eventually develops enough to justify taking him so high. It's OK. No harm, no foul.
Nope, that is not what I'm saying at all. I am not calling him lazy or a slacker, merely a project player who was drafted too high for what he's been able to show on the field so far. I will admit that his pass rush technique is very questionable and that he often misreads or takes himself out of a play. He does make good moves sometimes but they come in the midst of a whole lot of bad ones. I've seen him doubled and I've seen TEs handle him with ease. I've seen him makes play and I've seen him run himself out of a play. And I've seen him completely muff his chance to make a play. I just have questions about his desire to live up to his billing. After all, the last fellow they picked number one overall didn't really fare too well here... Overall I suppose he's been OK but that's just my point: he wasn't picked no. 1 to be merely "OK".
There was a lot of absolute tripe and drivel being said about Carr. It was tripe and drivel then, and it's tripe and drivel now. I soured on Carr when I witnessed his continual indecisiveness and horrible decision making in the pocket. I soured on Carr because of tangible, measureable things I *saw* on the field, not "desire" or "heart". A phlegmatic temperament doesn't bother me in the least. Carr's phlegmatism (is that a word??) didn't bother me in the least. His sucktitude did, however. Because he plays a position in the open field that is fast paced and fast moving, without the best offensive tackles in the league wrapping him up the instant he comes off the ball. So the casual onlooker wouldn't come to that observation because running and hitting hard looks like "fireyiness". Not use his play on the field? Wha?? That's the only thing I've used all along. You and I disagree on his play on the field. That I can get. If you want to question his technique; then fine--at least it's something you *observed*, not a number you read out of the Houston Comical. As far as "subjective", there is nothing more "subjective" than "I don't think he has the HEART or the WILL to win." That is the very *definition* of "subjective"!! Again, if you disagree with my observations, that's fine. But your disagreement with my observations does not make them "subjective". I didn't check my emotions to see how Mario is doing--I watched. And in so doing, it is the Texans management circa January 2006 you are evaluating, not Mario Williams circa November 2007. Thanks!
To one of the points in the post above, I don't agree with everything here but it is objective, observable analysis. ...and that's subjective analysis, IMO. We don't know anything about his "desire", although if I were to hazard a guess it would be more about *winning* than "living up to his billing". Strawman. He's been more than OK IMO; he's been superb. Not Freeney (of course), but he could develop into that. As far as where he was picked, blame Kubiak and company.
I soured on Carr when he'd go out and have truly bad game performances and then would come off as some sort surfer QB (Whoa! Like chill out dude! It's just a game). He gave me the impression that he didn't consider football to be all that important to him and that attitude showed on the field. That's what struck me about VY (aka The Chosen One) because he sounded more like a determined veteran QB than did Carr. No No No. Now you are making excuses for Mario. It's not because they play different positions - it's HOW they play their positions. After every game, Demeco leaves absolutely no doubt in our minds that he came to play, play hard and excel. All I'm saying is that I really cannot honestly say the same thing about Mario. No, I was responding to your repeated contentions that we really cannot use Mario's numbers (metrics) to "properly evaluate his performance because they aren't telling the "whole" story. My response is: "OK, if we have to do that for Mario, then we should do the same for both VY & RB because every time someone wants to point out how much they "suck" they refer to their numbers but when this is done with Mario, then I'm hearing that his "numbers" don't tell the whole story. I do believe that you are a bit more emotionally involved here than I. I think that you really want the kid to do well , bust out and prove all of the haters wrong. And that's OK with me. Me, on the other hand, I look at him and feel he could go either way: boom or bust. This is because I have just seen so many highly touted players come and go over the years who failed to live up to expectations. I mentioned Matuszak earlier, but really he's starting to remind me more and more of (Big Daddy) Dan Wilkerson. Not true. When the kid plays well, I acknowledge it here. It's just that I don't have the same expectations of Mario as you. If he eventually busts out, then I'll be pleased but also note that if he were to fail to live to his draft standing, potential, whatever, I would neither be surprised nor disappointed in the least because like said: I've seen this happen on more than one occasion. I think we need to stop here because we are soooooo far off topic and I don't want to incite the wrath of Clutch.
See, his disposition didn't bother me, because I've seen others with that disposition excel. The only thing that bothered me was that he sucked (and, if it's true, that he showed up late and left early). Observing a fact about the difference between the way those two position play is NOT an excuse. You completely missed my point. After every game that I have been able to watch, Mario has left absolutely no doubt in my mind that he came to play, play hard, and excel. It's *easier* for someone who's looking for "fireyiness" and "WILL to win" to see it in a guy in the defensive backfield than it is for someone on the line. And while I respect your opinion, I *can*. When I criticize RB and VY I use things I've observed on the field more than numbers. In fact, those who sing VY's praises use one number and one number only--his team's wins--before piling on all the subjective nonsense. You're projecting someone else's subjectivity on me. I'm not emotionally invested either. By "subjective", I mean things that are guaged subjectively and not with either measurement or objective observation: "WILL to win" is a completely subjective idea. It sounds really great on NFL films, but on the field when the heat is on it's a lot more about presence of mind, prerparation, talent, and sheer strength than "will to win". Similarly, "desire" or "wanting to live up to the billing" are completely subjective in nature. Not only are they subjective, but you and I don't know where the guy's mentality or emotional state even are, and as such it's not logical to make dogmatic statements about them. I prefer to avoid this kind of stuff and simply talk about the football that's being played on the field. Meh. He could be somewhere in the middle, too. And his status will depend entirely upon whom you're speaking with and what expectations that individual had. What other first round picks did is irrelevant. In fact, to me his draft status is entirely irrelevant at this point (before you feel the need to restate your position, I do understand where you're coming from on that much-rehashed issue). ...but never without mentioning that draft. LOL. Or Castor, for that matter. It's nice to utterly disagree with a take, for more than a day no less, and no one hurl any ad hominems. My takes generally come off more terse than I'd like, so kudos to you.
