Great insight Aelliott especially about how this exception can help other teams avoid the luxury tax now and that it wouldn't be hindered by BYC. I don't want to trade Cat. Cato is also valuable right now but if we could get a solid defender at the 4 I would consider trading him.
i would rather have jj then glen because Glen hurts us on D and is injury prone. we did need the cap space so I do agree with that part. I still think we should have moved rice and kept posey then we would have no problems at the 3 spot in the first place.
Remember when Olajawon retired and the Raptors wanted to trade him to a team that needed cap room? NO TAKERS. every year bloated contracts expire. but how often do you hear of trades involving teams taking on those bloated contracts for cap room? it's rare. Crash, you keep talking about how Rice can play for you this year so that equals out the benifits of taking on Terrell Brandons contract (and i think even that trade was a rare fluke) but what you fail to mention IS WHO THE HELL WANTS TO PLAY GLEN RICE? he's old. he's fat. he's injury prone and his shot isn't what it used to be. he's streaky at best. The Utah Jazz are expected to cut him. They made this trade expressly for the number 1 pick. They didn't need salary cap room but they did need a bit more salary as they are too far under the cap. How often do teams not use trade exceptions? I'm not aware of any case in which a trade exception has gone to waste. If any of you have knowledge of such a circumstance please bring it to light. I'd like to thank DaDakota, Codell and AeElliott for being voices of reason among lots of madness on this board. Glen Rice's expiring contract was damn near worthless. Accept it. You claim most of the board would agree it has worth. Well not to knock this board, which is full of intelligent and insightful basketball fans, but most of us don't understand salary cap issues. I think that's a big problem here. (by the way, i don't fully understand the cap rules either so i'm certainly not attempting to take a high and mighty stance)
OH YEA RICE IS GONNA SHOT OUT LIGHTS OUT WHEN WE PLAY THE JAZZ..................I HOPE EVERYONE KNOWS THIS.
crash - I wouldn't have slammed you because I didn't want Rice in Houston from Day 1 (Hence the 2 year old sig which may take me awhile to replace since like Rice I am also stunned). By now, I am sure you have read aelliott's take which is much better than I can state it. Please take time to give thought to the concept that Rice's expiring contract (no matter how much it may have been worth prior) is totally worthless to Houston after the Feb trade deadline. The trade exception is good until nearly the start of training camp 12 months from today. Plus the exception can be used in any trade while Rice was only valuable to team which could get enough under the cap next summer to be big FA pursuers. Further, after reading the most recent newspaper articles about JVG, I have no doubt in my mind that everybody on the current Rockets roster is expendable...and that trade exception puts teeth into any JVG threat to do so. That was not true of dangling Rice as trade bait. The only thing I can add further is a quote I'll borrow from NIKEstrad in another thread..."the Grizz trading SAR to the Hawks looked pretty bad until the pick turned into Pau Gasol". OK...I am through belaboring the issue. My point for over 6 months has been that Rice's expiring contract was not all that valuable. If the Jazz are able to move him for a valuable player, I will rollover submissively and let you and RIET verbally pummel me (exclusive of any expletives). However, if the Jazz do something like put Rice on waivers or buy out his contract...be prepared.
This deal is a good deal ... if the 6.5 million exception can be used effectively. Our team just got better, so we've already helped ourself. In addition, we have the chance to be a major player in the future trade market. Just think about it. We got better already. Jackson and the Utah Scrubb are better than Rice, plain and simple. People need to stop overreacting and realize that we won't know how good this trade is until we do something with the exception. Props to GATER, Dakota, Aelliot, and the rest of the level-headed posters.
Really. Some of you didn't take long to overreact to this one. Seriously...am I the only one that watched last year? What good is Rice to this team now? He was regulated to a decent roll player, who stepped up in stretches here and there. Great guy, standup veteran...but he wasn't going to net us much. His contract was worth very little, certainly less than many of you think. Really...if someone had stepped up with something 'decent' for Rice, don't you think we would have taken it? Amaechi is a wash. I don't even really consider him much in this deal. If he makes it as a backup, fine. If not...also fine. The pick is the only negative, and even then it's hard to judge how much of one it is. Do we even know the conditions behind it yet? And really....aren't we supposed to be entering an era where they won't be as vital? If we suck, and don't make it to the playoffs again, and need another high first round pick...then another couple of years to develop that pick before we make it useful...our problems are a lot worse than what happened today. It looks to me like we lost: Glen Rice Glen Rice's 9 million dollar contract 1st round pick And we gained: Jim Jackson John Amaechi 6.5 million dollar exception 2nd Round pick I don't see much of a problem.
so lets see, we lost a first round pick while improving our sf position and only lost 2.5M off our trade exception (which is what rice's contract was) and les doesn't actually have to pay the 9M for this season. sounds like a win all around to me. and don't give anything about 2nd round picks, they might as well have said we agreed to give utah a shiny new spalding basketball in 2005 and 2006 with the crap shoot those thing are. and if chicago gives utah a lottery first round pick instead of 2 2nd rounders, well i'll eat this friggin plastic cup i'm drinking out of right now. if y'all are calling this stupid, then chicago would certainly top us if they did that. the pick we traded for 2004 and can be no better that 14 so no one should call it a lotto pick. and why are picks so important for us again? we already seem to have players at every position, 2 deep even except really at sf, and certainly don't need to be any younger. i mean adding talent is always good, but we're not exactly rebuilding and in desperate need of an infusion of young talent. jim jackson is actually still talented and gives us a legitimate 3 for this season, so that sounds good. and rice was barely even considered our starter so we didn't lose much on the court. as for being able to trade rice's contract for something better, well we've still got 6.5 of that 9M to play with as it is. sure 2.5M is significant, but i'm thinking if there's a huge blockbuster deal 2 teams wanna do, 2.5M won't get in the way. lets put it this way, if you woke up every morning knowing you had to pay glen rice 9M dollars to not be good and be marginally marginally marginally better than the next sf on your team and knew he might get hurt, and then someone told you didn't have to pay that 9M and you could get someone even better to play his position and only pay 1.25M while retaining the flexibility his contract offered in the first place and all it really would cost is a 1st round pick, wouldn't you do it? asset reallocation. 9M for rice or 2.8 for john, 1.25 for jackson, and maybe 5 or 6M for someone who doesn't suck. i can't believe we added eric piatkowski, jim jackson, and adrian griffin for 4M dollars. role players for sure, but decent guys who all got significant PT last year and filled in major areas of need perfectly. i say we've done good for ourselves given LT constraints. and finally, crash, how exactly is les a cheap b*stard? if you complain about him worrying about the LT, you'll have to complain about 25 out of the 29 owners (basically not portland, dallas, sactown, and new york). even jerry buss worries about the LT and it hasn't stopped them from winning. les has signed quitten to a huge deal, barkley to 14M in his last year, hakeem to a nice extension, gave steve his extension no problem, paid mo t, cato, moochie handsomely, and even paid shandon just to fulfill a wink wink deal. on your side of the ledger, we have he didn't pay james posey 5.8M a year, a move which over half of the 300 people in a poll in this forum agreed with. since it wasn't their money, i assume they had the basketball side of things in mind and still thought it was a good idea. and now the possibility that les is cheap and won't spend the 6.5M exception. so how does that add up to les is a cheap b*stard?
I like the deal...ppl on this board shouldnt be so short sighted. The deal gives us great flexibility and we lose Rice, who at this point in his career is only a shooter...at least jackson and griffin can play D. The draft pick is lottery protected so it essentially prevents us from getting another scrub who will sit on the end of our bench (see jason collier and nachbar) that ppl will b**** about. I know everyone values 1st round picks...but when I look at the 14-28 picks say from 2002, there is no one that I think would really improve our team...more so then say a stephen jackson or one of the veteran power forwards (hill) that we could sign with the 6.5 million exception. --->so its the lottery protected 1st round pick versus the exception...i take the exception.
not to ride aelliott's jock any more than it's been ridden, but that post about sums it up. more flexibility in trades is great for a team if it wants to be a major player this season or next and is looking to add real talent (not the overpriced guys you get with expiring contracts). also, i don't wanna make it sound like i don't value first round picks at all, BUT you have to give to get, and getting jim jackson (i.e. a better small forward) and more trade flexibility is getting. plus, it's not like utah just loves the idea of paying glen rice 9M dollars when they didn't have to (though they may be that far below the minimum salary, not exactly sure). i'm not thrilled with the 1st rounder in there, but i understand if it has to be and for a team with 9 players it considers contributors (10 if you wanna count moochie, which i don't) and lots of young players we don't really need draft picks a lot, which makes the loss easier to bear. and i don't know why people are worried about paying amechi 2.8M dollars. that's chump change, damn near everybody over 6'8 gets paid that. if it was 6 or 7M i would understand, but not 2.8. plus, even though he may suck, he was decent on orlando and he is a 3rd body at either the PF or C positions, which you're going to need at some point with injuries so you might as well have it.
Did I ever mention how much I love having aelliott and NIKEStrad on this board (uh, I think I did). No endless blabbering - facts, knowledge and great insight. I have learned a lot from these two! Part of what makes this BBS so great! P.S.: What happened to heypartner???
You've been talking for a day and not sit back and think about what u said. How the heck does a team magically acquire Rices' contract in a trade invovling noone so they can go under the cap later? Paying $9.6 mil for that right and a player they can use (right! like they couldn't have signed JJ themselves for $1.2!) maybe cheap to u and your pal Cuban but nobody else! Utah can do this because they are under cap and to them Rice's expiring contract means little. Next yr. all they will get is back to where they were before they get Rice!! When r you gonna get this?!!!
Interesting that Dawson touted the acquisition of Amaeche and Jackson as adding veteran leadership. For years Jim Jackson has been touted for his multi-skills (and he is a very skilled player) but he tends to get bounced from team to team a lot and the belief is he is somewhat of a locker room problem. It may be because he is aloof (hopefully) and not someone that causes probs...
An interesting take in the Chronicle this morning. The trade excetion brings flexobolity this year and allows VG to trade anybody who does not get on buard quickly. Interesting. From hte Chronicle "Another byproduct of this nifty little move is to serve notice to the troops who report for duty Thursday that any one of them can -- and likely will -- be moved if he doesn't get with the program immediately. "
You can't SIGN anyone with that exception. And it's not a 1st rounder vs an exception. It's a 1st rounder, 2 relatively high 2nd round picks, Glen Rice's EXPIRING contract, and taking on an extra 3mil for another year for a trade exception.
According to your logic then, the trade exception is useless as well since no team can "magically acquire" the trade exception w/o us taking on salary.
I love this. Post some positive info and you're "voices of reason" or "level headed", but if you have a different opinion and happen to think the trade sucked, you're mad. Get off your high horse.
A 1st round AND 2 2nd round picks AND take on Utah's worst player to unload a last year contract is very steep price to pay even if our picks under Rudy were poor - this is a new team and I can't see JVG picking Nachbar or JC. If they use they use the Trade Exception to pick up someone else, then ok. But history shows that CD will let it expire. Oh - and please don't think that Amaechi will make Cato replacable. A center who shoots 31% from the field, can't rebound, is twice as likely to turn it over before handing out an assist is not even a backup. He'll hurt you bad every time he steps on the floor. I'm no Rice fan, but you'd had better success moving Glen to the backup 5 spot. We got hosed - bad. And to make matters worse - we helped Utah get back in the game sooner.
