Let's say that this was a cost cutting move. In most cases, cost cutting moves hinder your short term success. Here, shipping out Rice and adding Jackson (I think) dramatically improves our short term success. It is critical that we reach the playoffs this year. Utah's cratered roster virtually guarantees that, but with the Rox, nothing is guaranteed. Reaching the playoffs will mean experience for our core players, revenues for Les, excitement for the new arena, just about everything you need. It's not clear to me whether we have compromised our long term prospects. If we are going to build around Yao, Francis, Mobley and Griffin, we have enough youth. These guys must develop into our horses. Late first rounders won't matter much more than early second rounders. Sure, you could get lucky and get another Mobley, but that's just not happening. As presently comprised, for the first time in a long time, I actually think that this roster has a good chance to be greater than the sum of its parts. That has clearly not been the case in several, frustrating years.
I don't mind it. Our team is entering an era where we don't need a lot of first round picks.... Just pick up some veterans and let Steve and Yao lead the team. No problem with this deal as long as we can utilize the 6.5mill exception. DD
crash - ATL did not set the standard. They participated in a trade which very rarely ever occurs - they acquired a player who is going to medically retire NOW. The benefit was two fold. 1) They are guaranteed to not pay an LTax if it kicks in and 2) they are of the hook for Brandon's $11m because it is being paid by an insurance company. Do you see what I'm saying? Atlanta's payroll was just depleted by $11+m! Neither of these occur for a team acquiring Rice. Further, (other than LTax considerations), any expiring contract has value to only one type of team - a team that is guaranteed to be more than ~$4.5 under the cap. Do you understand this concept? If a team currently has a $50m payroll for 2004-05 and the cap is ~$43m, the team is better off with the MLE than Rice taking them to $40.5m which gives them $2.5m in cap space when he comes off their books. Go find a good source and see how many teams already have more than $50m committed for 2004-05. NONE OF THESE TEAMS BENEFIT FROM THE EXPIRING CONTRACT! Sorry to yell but you get the point...
Utah wouldn't trade for a "bag of dirt", they'd swim in a sea of offers for this expiring contract that you think is so valuable...opps, they didn't get any big offers? Thanks for proving my point.
Nothing like posting on page 7 to know you are going to get read. Rice's contract had no value in my opinion. Yes I understand expiring contracts. Dallas after their trade with Golden State, publicly stated thjey wanted to move Mill's (I think, might be someone else, I think about 6 mil) expiring contract. No takers. There are a lot of overpaid players that teams would love to give away, but there are no takers. Whoever brought up Ostertag, that is a good example. I wouldn't take his (what) 9 million dollar contract fro free. And yes he would make some contribution, but that contract is a killer. I wouldn't take Motombo at I think $22mil over two years for something nominal like a second round pick, and he still has some play left. I wouldn't take Vin Baker for free...there are plenty of bad contracts out ther that teams would give up for a bag of peanuts. As far as his expiring contract helping us next year. I don't think so. It can only help us to the extent that it puts us below the salary cap. With Steve's new contract kicking in, I believe we are over, or at least signigficantly near the cap, rather or not we have Rice's contract. I think Rice'strade value is whatever an over the hill big name who will spend some of the time on IR is worth. Nothing more.
You do realize this is what people thought a few years ago about Francis and Mobley, right? 1st rounders are decent commodities. The past few years, we've been treating them as if they were nothing. Even if you don't value an asset that highly, it's still stupid to let it go as easily as houston does.
I know this trade sounds bad but follow me. the rox got enough talent at every position to win this year or least be competitive. most of the players on our roster are versatile and can fill in at different positions. They pulled this deal off to get better and to clear room for the future. They might make another move or two but don't count on it. The rockets look like they may make a run at KG and the nba's newest team Bobcats could help us get him. If they take 1 or 2 of our bad contracts like Taylor and moochie the caproom would be there when KG tests the waters. Who needs a first rounder when you can get KG. Good move CD!
Amichi, If I spelled it right, is a good back up for us. Third string no doubt. Somebody has to be 10-11 and 12 on the bench. Look at our four big guys at C and PF. Yao, Cato, Taylor and Wonderchild EG. If any of the four gets hurt, we are in major trouble. I have preseason hopeless fan high hopes for both EG and MoT, but lets face it, each has major flaws. Can you imagine EG playing 40-42 minutes a game because Mo is out with injury (or on drug suspension - or in a Michigan jail). How ugly would that be! Same if Taylor had to play all the time if EG goes out. His back up would be Cato playing out of position or Piatowski/AGriffin. I mean seriously, who? Same for C. Cato goes down, Yao still plays 30-35 minutes a game. MoT plays center for 15 minutes a game. I hope not. Much worse if Yao gets injured, called back to the home land, or runs out of gas at the end of the season again. We needed a big banger to back up both slots. I like Amichi for that role. Rather he was worth Rice or not is a different story, but he definately fills a hole.
I think it is a curious move for several reasons: 1. Amechi has definitely shown that he no longer has a passion for the game. He's neither a scoring threat in the blocks or a great defender and rebounder in the departed Chris Dudley mode. He is definitely not the prototypical JVG type of player. 2. Rice was worth a great deal as a player in the last year of his contract. Keeping him on the roster at least gave the Rox a way to get into a three-way trade situation and maybe pick up a missing piece. 3. Why did they ship a 1st rounder to the Jazz? That makes no sense at all. I'm sure the Jazz were surprised to pry it away so easily. 4. Lastly, where are we going to find minutes for this guy? The frontcourt is already packed with a cast of thousands as it is. He's just going to be a warm body on the bench.
haven, What was Rice's future here with the Rockets anyways? He's a veteran, true. But he's been injury prone, overweight because of it, and not really a force like he used to be. Maybe Amaechi's numbers were a refection of his unhappiness at Utah. And for JJ. Well, he did well in the playoffs. So, he will help our depth. I'm glad we made the trade. Rice was getting too much for what he was giving the team. Cato is more a mainstay compared to Rice. Plus, this will give Boki, Pike, A. Griff and JJ more time. I don't mind the "3" with a four man rotation. The SF by committee.
<i>The trade exception can function the exact same way Rice's expiring deal could at the deadline. But once the trade deadline passes, Rice's value as trade bait is gone once we cross the trade deadline; we can still use the trade exception next summer, either in a sign and trade or a regular trade. The trade exception albeit 2.5 million less than Rice's deal is just so much more versatile. Everything Rice's deal can do, so can the exception- plus the exception can be split up, can be used next summer, and won't count against the books this year. This deal just advances the relief from 2004 to now- it'll still be there in 2004 if we opt not to use it. I think there are further implications to this trade that haven't been shown yet- Amaechi allows us to move Cato much more freely, and this "swap" of Rice for Jackson perhaps paves the way for us to use Cuttino as bait.</i> Re-read Nike's post, he makes some very good points. The one thing that he left out is that we can use the trade exception to help another team avoid the luxury tax THIS season. Trading Rice directly to another team wouldn't give them cap relief until next season. For a team looking to avoid the luxury tax this year, our exception is much more attractive than another team's expiring contract. This exception can effectively do the same thing for a team as Brandon's contract did for Atlanta. There's lots of possibilites here. Here's my take: - Our talent in better today than it was yesterday - We now own a $6.5M trade exception. - Our roster is now quite deep, so we've got the flexibility to use various players in trades (along with the exception). Personally, I don't think the whole issue is whether or not we go over the luxury tax. For the right player, I'm betting that the Rockets would go over the tax limit. What they didn't want to do is to go over the tax limit for Rice and Posey. We're an attractive trading partner for any team wanting cap relief. Worried about those pesky BYC complications? No worry, the exception takes care of that. All in all, I like the deal.
I think JJ will be your starter at the 3, since EG is still learning how to play that position in the NBA. I was talking about Amaechi when I said he would be play very little.
Aelliot makes a lot of sense. It doesn't explain why the Rockets had to give up a first round draft choice, but if it was necessary, I think what they got in return (using Aelliot's logic) could be worth it. Have to see what happens.
Gater, Teams do benifit from Rices expiring contract at the end of the year. Do they get the benifit of his expiring contract for the 03/04 season? No. I know that. But they do get the same advantage for the 05/05 season. Aquiring Rice gives them a player they can use (unlike Brandon) for a year as well. If a team is only 1 million over the cap then acquiring Rice will put them about 9 million under after this season is over. We can work this any way you want. All I am saying is that there is value to Rice's contract and almost everyone on this board agreed with that. If I had proposed a Rice plus 1 first round and a 2nd conditional first round for Amaechi a 6.5 million dollar trade exception and a Sac 2nd rounder I would have been blasted. Partly because Amaechi is a scrub and partly because I did not get anything at all back in the trade. Now instead of a 10 million dollar expiring contract I have a 6.5 million dollar trade exception. Instead of a player that can come in from time to time and play a position of weakness on our team and maybe even start we have a scrub that will never see the floor with this curent set of players. Now instead of a 1st round pick and another conditional 1st round pick we have a Sac 2nd round pick. No matter how you spin it the trade looks to be weighted heavily in Utah's favor. I will say that I have warmed up to the 6.5 million trade exception but it still looks to be heavily lopsided.
Oh wait! I just realized he will pan out just like: . Both were backups in Utah that mopped up some minutes. I see a resemblance in body type, too; Both are weighed exactly the same (270 lbs.).
