Riet, Exactly. They got Brad Miller with that trade exception (part of it). So don't you agree that we have to wait to see what we can get for that trade exception (perhaps we can get a good player like the Kings did) before we call this a bad trade?? The Kings and the Rockets made almost the exact same deal with Utah. Rice doesn't have the trade value that Clark did. Clark is an expiring contract worth $5 mil + AND is young AND talented. Rice/1st rounder = Clark. Receiving Amaechi in return to be the 11th or 12th man is meaningless. Do you know how many players there are sitting at the end of benches who make a similar salary???
I'm in whichever group gets paid dental... But as for your original claim, that we're not worse off now, that's where I disagree. We are a team of the future. As such, drafty picks are an essential and valuable part of our overall team value. 1st rounders, especially ones like Chciage which could be in the 10-15 range ( or not at all) are very much a part of our future value. We no longer have that, and that one aspect, the draft pick, is far and away the most valuable commodity which traded hands today. And we did it...and gave up a potentially valuable contract after eating the downside of it for years..so we could save money signing a decent free agent. Let's make that part clear: It has been argied that we could have signed Jackson AND remained blow the cap, but even if we didn't, we gave up a 1st so we could sign a journeyman freeagent and save cash on the deal. Forget about Rice's value if you want...forget about having to carry Amechi for 2 years...Jackson is a decent player, probably better than Rice...but he was a free agent for months, and nobody had signed him. It wasn't like he was top tier...and we gave up a 1st so we could sign him, not even trade for him. We could have, if he was so essential, just signed him and maybe taken a minor hit from the tax...or we could have signed him and dumped Rice off later when teams are looking for cap space mid season...or we could have stayed pat. I, too, am wait and see contingetn upon another move which made this necessary...but I won't be holding me breath, and if there is no other move, this plain sucks. Again, we gave up a 1st rounder, probably around 10-15...for the ability to sign a mediocre free agent and not pay too much cash doing so. I guarantee that, if there is no third shoe to drop, we are going to be regretting the name John Amechi come some draft day morning.
For teams at the point where they're trying to get rid of 11 million dollar players that are still effective (Robinson, Sprewell) , odds are they're in rebuilding mode-winning games with grizzled veterans is probably a low priority. Anyhow early reports have Utah potentially CUTTING Rice. Brandon doesn't even exist on the books either. I don't see Rice as being any more valuable than the trade exception we have, other than Rice can fetch about 2 mill more. The trade exception however can be split up, and also has a longer life than the Rice bait will have- we could use it in a sign and trade next summer. To use Rice like that, we'd have to get the other team to agree to pay Rice 6.5 mill a year for at least 3 years, which is not gonna happen.
Crash, Actually, it won't be an unprotected pick. Houston receives a Chicago first round pick in 2003 or 2004, (top 20 protected) or 2 future Chicago second-round picks in 2005 and 2006. If the pick is protected in both 03 and '04, the second rounders will be exercised instead. There is no way that Chicago finishes in the top 10 in the league this year. So that means well have 2 2nd round picks in 05 and 06.
It won't be 10-13 because it's lottery protected. At best it'll be 14. 14-17 is realistic. I still don't understand why people treat that pick as if it's worthless. With the amount of speculation in today's draft environment, players who wouldve been taken in the Top 10 are now falling to that range. And if you didn't see a player you like, you can gamble on a Euro player. There are tons of teams who have gambled and won and there are still players who've been drafted that will payoff in the future. This is the NBA. You get draft rights forever.
All this talk about this being bad, because its a money move, well, it takes money to make moves. It's a business, and a part of the business is rebuilding this team, playing with the resources of players, draft picks, trades and money. All summer, we've been paralyzed, because we are over the luxury tax. Now we aren't, now we CAN make moves, not only in FAs, but also trading our players, who can have enhanced value with parts of the exception. But, Macbeth is quite accurate. If we DON'T use any of the exception, this DOES suck. I understand saving tens of millions of shared revenue, and not paying players double their value, and going down below the luxury tax ceiling to do it. But, I wouldn't understand "no more moves" at this point, and I find it hard to believe that there aren't more things coming to demonstrate the value of this trade. It's also true we're facing up to a number of bad decisions made in the last few years, of signing Pip with a bad back and attitude, trading Pip for crap, S&T of Anderson for Rice, signing Taylor, Cato, Norris, Maloney, trading Thomas for Posey, but then losing him to a too high priced contract. Outside of having the guts to take Ming, our drafts aren't turning out too good, either. I admit I'm dissappointed in taking Drew and Turckan (when every Houston fan in the world knew we should take Rashard Lewis), Langhi, Collier, TMo, Griffin, Boki (maybe the jury is still out on those two), and Tito. Thomas and Dickerson were decent, and they helped us get something good in trade, especially for where they were picked. Obviously, the Francis trade was a stroke of genius, and picking Mobley in the second round was amazing. But, since the championship years, we've been making a lot of mistakes in our rebuilding. I guess if Griffin turns it around, it'll enough to take us to championship level. Dawson used to be the consumate trader, picking up Barkley, Drexler and Francis, but perhaps that was more because of people wanting to play next to Dream in his prime. I'm wondering if I've given him too much credit. oh well ... we'll see.
Don't you agree that there are teams that will want to be under the cap next summer? Don't you agree that Rice will have plenty of value around the trade dead line? Certainly Robinson is an example of a team trying to shed a long term contract for some very large cap releif. Rice provides this in 2004 less than a year from now.
BTW, this trade would be a lot easier to digest if not for the 1st round pick plus the 2 second rounders (probably very high) that we exchanged for a Sac 2nd rounder (possibly the last pic in the draft).
I am very sorry..I remember a thread about him being intelligent...I was too excited! Too bad there is no editting ability. But he does suck as a basketball player...
For those thinking it's a good deal getting rid of first rounders so we don't have to pay a gaurunteed contract, I would rather pay a youngster with promise, than pay Amechi to sit on the end of the bench. I think they will basically cost the same against the cap.
The trade exception can function the exact same way Rice's expiring deal could at the deadline. But once the trade deadline passes, Rice's value as trade bait is gone once we cross the trade deadline; we can still use the trade exception next summer, either in a sign and trade or a regular trade. The trade exception albeit 2.5 million less than Rice's deal is just so much more versatile. Everything Rice's deal can do, so can the exception- plus the exception can be split up, can be used next summer, and won't count against the books this year. This deal just advances the relief from 2004 to now- it'll still be there in 2004 if we opt not to use it. I think there are further implications to this trade that haven't been shown yet- Amaechi allows us to move Cato much more freely, and this "swap" of Rice for Jackson perhaps paves the way for us to use Cuttino as bait.
All I got to say as a Jazz fan is................. Thank you very much for taking the worst player in Jazz history. In all seriousness...... Meech may turn out to be a decent player for a different coach. He and coach Sloan just flat out hated each other, and every time he sneezed sloan was on him like stink on a turd. He does have skills and may just be a plus for the rockets.
My opinion hinges on the 1st round pick. If we give up a 1st rounder, it's a terrible deal. If we're not, I don't really care. After giving up a lotto pick this year for absolutely nothing (it turns out), I'm highly skeptical of giving up more. Remember last time? We weren't supposed to be in the lottery, so it wasn't supposed to matter. Then again, the Rockets have gotten very poor mileage out of the draft lately. And no, Yao doesn't count. You don't get credit for not ****ing up the #1 pick in the draft. You just get pasted if you do. I guess the last good draft Houston had was when they got Dickerson and Mobley. Of course, they also struck out twice in that draft with mid-1st round picks. Yick.
idajazz, I'm hoping this somehow turns into a win-win situation. I don't begrudge you your satisfaction. Hopefully Amaechi will be a decent third-string, possibly second-string center for us.
