You brought up the pocket passers, there is a huge difference in dual threat qb like Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson and Cam. Designed runs for qb are always going to be risky to the qb, period. Running shouldn’t be first option very often for any qb, the first and main priority should be passing.
LMAO @ RPO heavy. Okay. If you want to call it that, I guess if that is what is supposed to be happening then it explains alot as to why everyone is failing. Maybe OBrien needs to bring in whoever advised him in 2017 at how to run this "RPO" offense that you speak of. Lining up in Wildcat and empty sets while still promoting a vertical passing game with no POP concepts and no hot routes is not RPO football my guy. Just sayin'
So which is it? If Cobb and Fells are running flats were running a vertical passing game? When have you seen the Texans line up in wildcat? Empty sets with two back that go in motion is literally a high school and college RPO set.
I completely agree with you that O’Brien is garbage. Watson is playing bad too. But I don’t think the fix is having Watson do heavily designed QB runs, he needs to follow the Wilson, Rodgers, Mahomes models. Or he’s going to end up hurt and we have no future at all.
Why is Fulton on this team? He was overpaid trash last year and now he’s lesser paid but might be the worst guard in the NFL. There were seriously no better options in the off-season?
here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_E... Patriots generally,use of the nickel defense. that is what OBrien is trying to run while also TRYING to implement 21 spread I/RPO concepts, but the man doesnt have a firm grasp on how to hybridize the offense to fit the talent and to maximize the mismatches it can create. OBrien is asking everyone to "make a read" but in a true spread you dont ask that much of everyone. Throw to a point dependent on formation. It simplifies the offense and thus has been shitted on because it just isnt "complicated enough" for the NFL. my point is that New England lining up in wildcat with Newton only ADDS to the RPO sets they run while also giving the continuous different looks to keep the defense guessing. How can a coach justify running the same "RPO" shell with flat concept so many times in one game vs an NFL defense??? Thats foolhardy and then to place the blame on the QB for the systemic deficiency with the offense is also wrong IMO. The Wilson/Rodgers/Mahomes models??? Dude those guys excel outside of the pocket - its what makes them lethal inside of it! Mahomes literally ripped us apart on the run in the playoffs with DESIGNED pocket movement and then just awesome player ability on scrambles. He didnt stand in the pocket and play Joe Montana to win his Super Bowl. While those teams dont ask their QB to run as much as Jackson/Newton/Murray - it doesnt mean that either way is the end all be all, what kind of QB is Watson?? Answer that and then you mold the offense around him. Having designed runs with a mobile QB is mandatory to not making your offense easy to defend. OBrien is asking Watson to be Brady instead of just letting him be Watson. Again with the injury narrative - im not sure what to tell you if you decide that medical experts and substantiated deep dives into the topic result in the opposite of what you are wanting to be true. Simply stated you are wrong to think that a mobile QB will get hurt by running the ball vs standing in the pocket. One more time - im not saying run Watson like Newton (Cam is like 50lbs heavier) BUT you have to still be able to use the legs as a weapon and not just as a last resort.
You’re conflating several different topics here. First, you brought up Cam and the “unique” offense from the Patriots and their RPO game. You didn’t even realize the Texans are in RPO a large chunk of the time. Cam is nothing like Wilson, Mahomes, Rodgers or Murray even. You used him as an example and it’s a terrible comparison. Cam and Lamar are single read, half the field Quarterbacks. The offense is simple. But it is also easy to stop in the playoffs, that’s why quarterbacks like them have had zero success in the playoffs. Wilson, Mahomes and Rodgers run very little RPO. They run some, they run zone reads, and they run boot leg stuff to get them out of the pocket. That’s an entirely different type of “mobility” hell its not much different than slow quarterbacks being mobile within the pocket. You think I’m saying negative things about a dual threat qb, I’m not. There have been tons of super bowl champ dual threats that were pass first players (Elway, Young, Tarkenton, Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson) this isn’t new. Run heavy QBs like you see in older high school play are never going to be successful unless they can pick apart defenses first. You can site any study you want, the fact is the more you put your body at risk of heavy hits as a runner, the more potential you have for injury. Ask RG3
And again I agree with you on running the same play. In theory RPO should provide more flexibility because it’s an “option” play, but it’s easy to plan for if you know it’s coming. I see what you meant about the wildcat game with Pats running it. I wouldn’t be opposed to mixing up a bunch of styles, I’m not saying that at all. I just wouldn’t want Watson doing too much designed runs. Options? Yes. He’s not the athlete Lamar is and doesn’t have the size Cam has (and he’s still injury prone)
So help me understand - if this concept is not successful in the playoffs, why is it successful in the regular season? I suppose you are trying to tell me that the Houston Texans are running a spread/RPO offense??? Now Im really confused. I guess OBrien is just doing the best job of disguising it in football history. Single read half the field QB for Lamar Jackson?? Cam Newton MAYBE, but Cam has just shown in his first two games that he's more than capable of finding an open receiver and adapting to more responsibility as evidenced in his latest game and the brilliance by Belichek and Daniels to find the right fit of plays for him. Im perplexed you're trying to sell me this. Agreed to the "Rodgers and Co" West Coast type stuff, but in only fuels my argument - OBrien needs to find the plays that work for HIS QB and stop trying to force feed a "system" or "his" RPO if thats what you want to call it. How many roll outs and true play action are we watching so far?? You're right that gimmicky multiple motion and bland attempt at fooling the D with a half ass fake handoff sucks - maybe Watson didnt figure out how to conceal it better at Clemson? If RPO was really going to be the style of play for OBrien then why waste time with DAvid Johnson?? He doesnt fit the bill as a gap runner. Im really trying to see your point of view and maybe learn something along the way, but as much as QB play may be the biggest factor in playoff football, there are many different variables that lead to post season success and saying Lamar Jackson in his loss to TENN last year wont "get it" because of his style is crazy premature. Dont forget how well the TENN offense played and how much share the BAL defense takes in that loss. There it is!!! The RG3 argument I was wondering when it would drop. Cool!! You want to use him as your prime example - again you are wrong and wont even take the time to modify your thought process because you dont want to be wrong, Its okay. I still appreciate the debate.
Firstly, it’s like you said before, the concepts are easy and it limits options to one side of the field. That’s why it hasn’t had success. Roman ran the same stuff with 9ers and Kap and they were figured out in the playoffs. Maybe intensity picks up or just the level of competition. Could be similar to Rockets in the sense that system is awesome in regular season and too easy to plan against in playoffs. I don’t know what “offense” O’Brien is running honestly. There’s RPOs, there’s some west coast concepts and there’s some vertical passing game concepts but it all seems out of place. Single read only means predetermined outlet or go to, RPO has one or maybe two options down field, it’s just a derivative of the zone read to add a passing play out of it. When you run to one side that limits the side of the field you throw to and the QB has to make the decision quickly. This is why it’s so simple, effective with the right player. Lamar has been one and done in two playoff games, has looked really bad in both. Roman is running the same offense he did with 9ers and Kap, unless Lamar makes super man plays it won’t win. I absolutely agree with you about O’Brien, there is no variety, no deception (that works anyway) sometimes seems like he wants to be run heavy, sometimes doesn’t. I don’t know what it is, maybe that’s why he calls it a gameplan offense. RG3 is only one example. Watson himself has been injured several times now from taking unnecessary hits. I don’t mind running when needed and keeping defenses on their heels. Watson isn’t the biggest built guy, and he’s not elite athletically. Get down. You very rarely see Wilson take big hits, he runs when needed and aren’t many designed runs. I think we agree on a lot of things, outside of the designed runs for Watson.
thats interesting stuff. If RPO isnt intended for deep routes Im not sure why I keep seeing so many verticals in the OBrien approach and not enough POP and hot routes for Deshaun to have a safety valve on every single passing play. Add to that the congested passing layers and im not sure what to make of it all. Im more confused now than I was yesterday. I'll have to rewatch the games again and take some notes to help me make some sense of it all. I wonder how much authority Deshaun has to audible out of these doomed plays?? There have been some plays this year where when you replay there was no way in the world it would have been successful. I think making a blanket statement about guys like Jackson, Cam and even Greg Roman might be premature. I think Jackson is a better passer and runner than Kaepernick was. Thing is he's even better this year AFTER teams have had all the film in the world to prepare. Playoff football involves alot of different things up to and including coaching as some of the most important - its not only determined by QB play. Dude I WISH we could at least make a conference championship game with some sort of spread offense let alone a Super Bowl. Watson was tore his ACL at practice on some innocuous non contact play - football is savage. Guys get hurt. Its the nature of the beast, but if you make guys fear those hits and try to coddle and babystep them then it really will blow up on you. Let these guys play football - Deshaun popping his lung on a rush around the corner is part of it - he didnt miss much time and it isnt some lingering issue now, but its become a sort of paralysis by analysis. FWIW RG3 was rushed back into action by Shanahan and that was probably the single most glaring reason why RG3 couldnt rebound well and was only further set back.
And like we've seen before, with the exception of Fulton, these fatties could have success elsewhere in different schemes. Even the Dolphins' seem comfortable with their scheme. With the Texans, it's the complete opposite. It shows everywhere. And there is nothing we can do about it unless Bill has a come to Bill moment.
digging around I find this. If THIS is really going to be a staple of the system for OBrien he has what he needs to run it, but it has to be better disguised and executed with an emphasis on the intermediate passing game and less go routes. More of this, less of the Cobb decoy route if you never plan to throw to the flat in the first place. thoughts @cmoak1982 ?
Eventually Watson has to keep it and run it in the RPO otherwise teams will be all over it like they were with the fells rpo late in the season last year.
Let's not forget Fulton played a number of positions on the line but played best at center before he joined the Texans. So he probably would be good elsewhere if he was playing the best position for him.
That’s the part I don’t understand either, outside of the flat and his lead I don’t see a ton of outlets, need to watch the all 22. Lamar is better than Kap, I am underrating his passing. I think it’s more to do with Roman on that part for me.
