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Official Cleveland Cavaliers Offseason Thread

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Carl Herrera, Jun 5, 2015.

  1. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">THIS JUST IN: LeBron James received injection in back this week, unlikely to play again in preseason. (via ESPN &amp; <a href="http://t.co/zYYuIGHqQn">http://t.co/zYYuIGHqQn</a>)</p>&mdash; SportsCenter (@SportsCenter) <a href="https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/655023564110876672">October 16, 2015</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
  2. LabMouse

    LabMouse Member

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    The back problem again? Maybe it is a time for James to go down rather than go up.
     
  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy QUEEN ANON

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    And HGH testing officially mandatory this year, right? Might have to avoid LeBron in fantasy this year.
     
  4. PhiSlamma15

    PhiSlamma15 Member

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    LeBron been in the league for 13 years....this year might be his LAST REALISTIC PUSH before the body starts breaking down. Hell need his team to STEP UP BIG for years to come can't just be all on him...ask Dwight Howard about it
     
  5. i3artow i3aller

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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">1 of these 3 will debut tonight at <a href="https://twitter.com/CavsWGUnited">@CavsWGUnited</a> event as a new <a href="https://twitter.com/cavs">@Cavs</a> uni. Here's a sneak peek. Which is your fav? <a href="https://t.co/wjthgMhSSv">pic.twitter.com/wjthgMhSSv</a></p>&mdash; Dan Gilbert (@cavsdan) <a href="https://twitter.com/cavsdan/status/656964184689786880">October 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

    :rolleyes::(:eek:
     
  6. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    What do the Cavs need to do to give themselves a chance at competing against the Warriors should the Cavs reach the Finals in 2018?

    Do they keep the roster & just hope for better play?

    "Cavs need changes to be title contenders"

    ESPN.com polled more than 30 executives, coaches, scouts, agents and players from around the NBA to find options to answer that query.

    There is a fundamental decision that has to be made to inform every subsequent move: Stand pat with what they've got at the core and hope the team doesn't start the 2018 Finals shooting 31-for-104 from 3 as it has this series -- believing that pitiful performance is more of an outlier than a sign of ineptitude in the face of the Warriors' ferocious defense -- or shake things up?

    "Pretty darn good team they have already," one Eastern Conference executive said.

    "I don't really think they should do anything," a Western Conference exec said.

    Then there is the other viewpoint out there that sees the Cavs as lagging so far behind the Warriors that anything less than a dramatic makeover this offseason would already be conceding the championship next year.

    The thing is, the dramatic route almost seems like such a pipe dream that some can't even take it seriously. "Hire Tonya Harding's ex-husband," one West exec joked.

    "Sign Kevin Durant," said a prominent agent, poking fun at the root of the problem in the first place. Another agent simply replied with a set of praying emoji hands when asked about the Cavs' plight.

    While it's easy to see why the Cavs' pursuit of the Warriors triggers this sort of gallows humor -- they are chasing a 73-win team that added Kevin freaking Durant, after all -- they do have some assets to play with.

    "I would start with seeing what options there are for [Kevin] Love," an Eastern Conference coach said.

    What would be the ideal option?

    "I'd be targeting Paul George," said a 10-plus-year NBA vet. "I don't know the match, but I'd give up anything but LBJ and Kyrie to get him. Melo [Carmelo Anthony] and D-Wade [Dwyane Wade] do not solve the problems that they have with GSW." And who wouldn't want the 27-year-old George, who came back from a horrific leg injury to average 23.7 points, 6.6 rebounds and 3.3 assists last season for the Indiana Pacers?

    The problem with Plan A is George isn't currently available, sources tell ESPN. Indiana and Cleveland could work out an extend-and-trade, but George would need assurances from James that the four-time MVP would be staying in Cleveland beyond 2017-18 -- which is the only remaining guaranteed year on his contract. This is a quagmire.

    Outside of the shoot-for-the-moon scenario with George, a consensus opinion shared often by many of the sources ESPN contacted was the need for more two-way players on the Cavs' roster.

    "Need to upgrade their 3-and-D role guys a bit," one source said. "I feel like they are on the verge of getting really old really fast."

    Maybe this can be accounted for by re-signing Derrick Williams and familiarizing him with the system enough so that Lue feels comfortable playing him. Maybe Kay Felder continues to develop; however, his size, standing 5-foot-9, suggests that he could always be somewhat of a defensive liability. Maybe bringing over 2015 draftee Cedi Osman from Turkey, a long wing player who should be a defensive energy guy, can help solve this spot, too. Yet Osman probably will cost part of the midlevel exception to sign him -- a prohibitive cost when the Cavs will have so few options to add players as a luxury-tax team -- which might prompt Cleveland to investigate the market for trading his rights to get into the first round of the draft this year, seeing as the Cavs currently don't own a pick.

    Cheap, game-ready two-way players are hard to come by. One Western Conference front-office member pointed out that the Cavs tried to hit on one in DeAndre Liggins this past season, but Liggins fell out of favor with the team and was waived a week before the playoffs started.

    Guys like James Jones and Dahntay Jones have been invaluable to the Cavs' culture, but they are past the point where they can be relied upon to give 15 to 20 consistent minutes. Deron Williams was acceptable at best on defense in his prime but made up for it with a brilliant offensive skill set. Both aspects of his game have regressed significantly, and with him starting the Finals 0-for-11 from the field, it would seem folly to make Williams a big part of future plans.

    Because of their cap situation -- fielding the most expensive roster in NBA history in consecutive seasons -- the Cavs will be in repeater tax next season. This season they are paying $24 million in tax. If they have the exact same payroll next season, they'd pay $38 million in tax. Obviously, with built-in raises on the books already, plus the need to re-sign Kyle Korver -- a shooter who could command something in the range of the $14 million-a-year deal that Jamal Crawford signed last summer on the open market -- their payroll will likely go up, meaning their subsequent luxury-tax figure could spike to the $50 million range.

    How valuable is Iman Shumpert? Can he get you a Jae Crowder, as one Western Conference coach threw out there? Is there a way to upgrade Richard Jefferson, who turns 37 this month, with another backup for James who can provide more consistent offense off the bench when James takes a breather?

    Is Tristan Thompson's underwhelming Finals performance an indicator that they should move on from him? Do the Cavs ask themselves what good is having a player play such a big role on your team the entire season if his game isn't suited to the gauntlet that Golden State puts you in? One agent suggested that the Thompson deal is not tradable even if they wanted to, saying, "The game is changing on those real limited offensive guys unless he's getting 15 boards and/or blocking shots. He's a nonfactor."

    James has known what the Cavs need for a while now. Back in January, seeing the roster deficiencies up close day in and day out, James went off after a loss in New Orleans, calling Cleveland a "top-heavy" team and exposing the Cavs' dearth of playmakers for all to hear.

    There is immense pressure on James and Irving to carry the team and make things happen on offense. Over the course of an 82-game season, it's a lot to handle. The Cavs have become so reliant on James, they can completely collapse even when he subs out for a minute or two, as was the case in Game 3 of the Finals when Cleveland was a plus-7 in the 46 minutes James played and a minus-12 in the two minutes he didn't.

    "I hate the fact that we're not able to, you know, just try to keep the leads, and if I come out of the game or not, even keep the leads, just sustain it," James said. "I hate it for my teammates, I hate it for myself, I hate it for everybody that's involved. So, something we have to figure out."

    Patience will be in high demand this offseason. But how do you be patient as the runner-up without feeling complacent? One West exec wondered, "How do you blow up a team that's been to three straight Finals? I think they ride it out, make some tweaks." Of course, the counter is, how can tweaks catch them up to a team that's being compared to one of the best of all time?

    Another agent summed it up thusly: "They can't get better. Just hope Iggy [Andre Iguodala] and some other Warriors move on." And this plan sounds sort of like the student who doesn't cram for the exam because he's banking on a school cancellation. The only benefit from losing to the Warriors for the second time in three years is the psychological conch goes back to the Cavs' camp. They will be the ones seeking vengeance next season rather than simply out to "add some ice cream when they've already had cake," as one league source close to the Cavs suggested this 2017 playoff run has been about after the thrill of the 2016 title.

    They can take that mental edge and use it to fuel training camp, stressing the defensive habits they've failed to establish this season by reminding the team of how devastating and embarrassing the Warriors' offense can be when it has gone unchecked. "Their GM is offense-minded, and Ty Lue has lost his focus on defense since becoming head coach," a source said. "This has got to be an adjustment no matter what the roster is."

    So, what now for the Cavs, we ask again?

    "If their roster stayed the same," one Western Conference assistant said, "they get to the Finals again -- no one is knocking them off in the East."

    And therein lies the problem. A fourth straight Finals for any franchise would be sublime. But losing to the same team three times in four years once you get there? Simply sickening.
     
  7. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    The sports pundits have talked about Love for Paul George. Might work, but I'd think IND would prefer younger pieces + draft picks to Love, who is likely not gonna be happy being shipped there anyway.
     
  8. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Member

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    George to Cleveland
    Love to Detroit
    Tobias, #12 to Indiana
     
  9. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    Why would Indiana take anything less than the Lakers or Celtics pick? They feel so much sympathy for Lebron that they want to help him out?
     
    Jayzers_100 likes this.
  10. aumate

    aumate Member

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    Problem with that is then they'll be without a PF. Don't think James wants to play a full season at PF. Cavs were already thin in the front court.
     
  11. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Member

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    Why would the Celtics trade the #1 pick with 4 years of control before restricted free agency and another 4-5 years of control, all for a possible one year rental?

    Why would the Lakers do the exact same thing when they could just wait another year and get another top pick and sign George outright?
     
  12. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    The Celtics are ready to make the jump, Lakers know that and don't want to miss out on PG13 if they decide to wait and sign him next year. That's the way i see it i guess..
     
  13. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Warriors managed to add David West and Zaza Pachulia for very little. I wonder if Cavs can bank on finding similar reinforcement.
     
  14. aumate

    aumate Member

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    West can't play 30+ mins. Also, he doesn't really stretch the floor for James and Irving.
     
  15. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Kevin Love and Ryan anderson seems to be the weakest links on the starting line up on their teams
    in the sense that they did not play to their paychecks

    Rocket River
     
  16. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    Most of the league now doesn't play up to their paychecks though..
     
  17. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    Be honest, if you were the Celtics you would still do it. If I'm Ainge, I fancy my chances of convincing George to stay with the team that was #1 in the East before he even joined vs the #1 pick turning out to be as good as George. I'd say 8 out of 10 #1 picks are not as good as Paul George. I think there is zero chance George would outright reject the possibility of an extension. More likely, he doesn't promise the Celtics an extension but goes into it with an open mind and the success will be infectious. Is he really going to join the Lakers the following season after playing at the top of the conference with Boston? Even with George and a home-run draft pick, Lakers will probably not crack the top 4 in the West in 2018-2019.

    Having said that, they could probably nab George for the 2018 Brooklyn pick and Marcus Smart if George is set on leaving and won't pre-agree an extension with anyone but the Lakers. Who is going to offer a better rebuilding asset than Brooklyn's 2018 pick? Which means they add George and the #1 pick to a team that finished #1 in the East regular season minus Smart.

    Good for Indiana. They get to tank and get - at worst - 2 top 10 picks in 2018. They can get some value for Thad Young too. Not a bad way to start a rebuild while they swallow the 2 idiotic contracts they gave to Ellis and Jefferson.
     
  18. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Member

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    At one point I would have.

    At this point? I would not at all.

    I have been listening to a lot of "locked on celtics" podcasts (I really enjoy their show TBH) and they make a lot of sense and know ainge more than me. The belief and reasoning of young flexible control absolutely trumps.

    And it makes a lot of sense. Especially with the dominance of gsw.

    So no, I wouldn't. Especially with how dominate gsw is.
     
  19. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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    They are screwed with TT's contract and I think JR as well

    Only way you will beat the Ws is to outscore them so maybe a Love for Melo swap? Try to get George because he's a two way player? Already have the highest payroll in the league
     
  20. JumpMan

    JumpMan Member
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    I still think they could have played better against the Warriors, but with all the talk of LeBron wanting to finish his career in La La Land I could see the Cavs either staying pat or losing in a trade involving Kevin Love. Either way, I think the Cavs are going to be disappointing next season and not even make the finals.

    That is if the Cavs don't get Paul George.
     

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