1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[Official] Brewers @ Astros

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Castor27, Apr 17, 2006.

  1. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    100,591
    Likes Received:
    102,834
    CC was dealing last night - low 90's fastball spotted on the corners all night, good breaking ball & a nasty, nasty change. Not too many teams ('27 Yankees are a possibility) would have had success against him last night.

    The parade of bloop hits by the Brewers was muy frustrating.
     
  2. MadMax

    MadMax Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    76,683
    Likes Received:
    25,924
    everyone struggles against good pitching! that's why it's good pitching!!! :)
     
  3. kaleidosky

    kaleidosky Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,086
    Likes Received:
    1,352

    Completely agree, and that's why I don't like the argument that "the stros are hitting well, but they still can't hit good pitching". But it's been presented a lot recently here..
     
  4. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 1999
    Messages:
    4,260
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes it was. The Astros won another series. As long as they keep winning each series all is well in the world. If the Astros keep winning each series, then they won't have to play catchup in August and September.
     
  5. Burzmali

    Burzmali Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    0
    Garner conceeded this game in the 8th by sending Springer out to pitch in a 2-1 game.

    Springer is far and away worse than both Wheeler and Qualls, so why was he called on? Gallo is also worse than both Wheeler and Qualls, why was he called on in the 9th?

    If Qualls or Wheeler holds the game 2-1, then Ensberg's homer would have been game tying.

    I can't think of a single reason why he would send Springer out in the 8th. Garner is a terrible manager.

    On the topic of Preston Wilson: Burke needs to be starting ASAP. Period. Wilson is slumping, Burke is raking, it's a no brainer. The guy can't even get a bat on the ball, it's pathetic.
     
  6. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 1999
    Messages:
    4,260
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh come on. You can't pitch Qualls and Wheeler every single game. Springer and Gallo are on the roster to play, not to be spectators. It is April, if they suck then they won't be here in June. You'd think that last night's game was game three of the NLCS by your comments.

    Wilson is slumping and could use another day off. I do remember someone mentioning here that Wilson is a streaky hitter. Well he is streaking the wrong way right now.

    Garner is probably an average to good manager, but name a great manager who is available, and isn't any coach/manager only has good as their last winning season? Garner has done a pretty good job with the Astros in the short time he has managedthem. Name another Astros manager who guided them to the World Series.
     
  7. Zac D

    Zac D Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2000
    Messages:
    2,733
    Likes Received:
    46
    Before yesterday, Springer had given up one hit and no runs in six appearances; Qualls, 12 hits and 9 runs in eight.
     
  8. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    100,591
    Likes Received:
    102,834
    I believe this is the first whiney "Garner sucks" post of the season, kudos.
     
  9. No Worries

    No Worries Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    32,830
    Likes Received:
    20,612
    Garner has to go!!! I mean 10-5 is completely pathetic with this talent.
     
  10. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,645
    So that makes you one of those people that believe if something in the past changes then everything in the future would turn out exactly the same? With a 2-1 lead, Capuano would probably have had a different pitch selection to Ensberg. With a 5-1 lead and two outs, he is trying to throw strikes.

    Do you really think that everything would have happened EXACTLY the same had the score still been 2-1 with Ensberg batting?
     
  11. Burzmali

    Burzmali Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    0
    Qualls:
    2005 - 80 IP, 3.28 ERA

    Springer:
    2005 - 59 IP, 4.73 ERA

    You want to use 2 weeks as your statistical sample, I'll take the full season. Thanks for playing.


    Also, did I say Garner has to go? I just said that his decisions are highly questionable. If the team is winning, fine. You just wonder how many games he costs the Astros over the course of a season.
     
  12. Burzmali

    Burzmali Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    0
    Of course not.

    By the same token, had the Astros managed to score 1 run (which is not outside the realm of possibility), it would have been a tied game. 1 run obviously much easier to come by than 6 runs.

    The whole point is that Garner's decisions practically lead to the game being blown wide open in the 8th and 9th innings. Unacceptable.

    Also a factor was the decision to pitch to Miller. Strange with Capuano on deck.

    Clarification: I'm not being whiny, I'm not a doomsayer. I think this Astros team is playing very well. It's just frustrating when a manager makes stupid decisions that potentially cost the Astros a sweep. You waste a gem of a game from Pettitte. Shame.
     
  13. Zac D

    Zac D Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2000
    Messages:
    2,733
    Likes Received:
    46
    I think you missed the other thing you said that I quoted.

    Wilson:
    2005 - 139 games, ~.800 OPS

    Burke:
    2005 - 108 games, .677 OPS

    I'm just sayin', pick a method and stick with it.

    Edit: For the record, if Garner is playing Springer based on the 'hot hand,' then he's being inconsistent with his use of Wilson, too. And personally, I think I'm more in the hot-hand camp, so I'd probably agree with using Springer over Qualls, but I'd also want Burke in LF over Wilson for a couple games.
     
  14. Burzmali

    Burzmali Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yep, I missed you're quote.

    The only problem is that Burke's stats come from his rookie season, playing in alot of pinch hit situations, and generally I think he might not have been fully ready to play but due to the Astros gaping holes on offense last season he got the call. Regardless, during the later parts of the season his stats improved I believe, and he flourished in the playoffs. Thus far this season he's been raking, and there is evidence to suggest he is simply progressing as a player.

    On the flipside, Preston Wilson's stats are influenced by playing in Coors Field, the most ridiculous hitters park in the history of baseball. And he still managed to K 140+ times last season.

    Completely different from a Springer/Qualls comparison in which Springer is actually the older player, and at least they are both veterans.
     
  15. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,645
    You specifically said that Esnbergs' HR would have tied the game. You are also assuming that Qualls or Wheeler would not have given up any runs. Not a good assumption based on the previous few games. Also, Springer was the most rested pitcher in the bullpen.

    I suspect Prince Fielder would have pinch hit for Capuano. Would you rather have faced Miller (who Pettitte had struck out twice) or Fielder who has started the year hitting very well including .333 (5-15, small sample size) against left handers?

    Managing sure is easy the day after the game.
     
  16. Zac D

    Zac D Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2000
    Messages:
    2,733
    Likes Received:
    46
    Fair enough. I don't agree that it's completely different, but it's not an unreasonable point of view.

    And none of my posts have addressed that we had another, more talented pitcher available (Dan Wheeler) who hasn't had quite as rough a start as Qualls and who may have been able to keep the game closer (although let's bear in mind that the hits Springer gave up were not exactly laser beams).
     
  17. Burzmali

    Burzmali Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, I did specifically say that. It's true, correct?

    I'm not saying that I know that Qualls/Wheeler would have kept it 2-1, or that Ensberg would have hit the same HR.

    I'm using Ensberg's homer as an example of what could have happened if we kept it a 1 run game. It's much easier to tie a 1 run game than a 6 run game, yes?

    And it's more likely, statistically, that Qualls or Wheeler keep it a 2-1 game rather than Springer/Gallo.

    Thus, Garner screwed it up.

    Regards to the Prince Fielder questions:

    Yes I would rather have Andy face a lefty, and subsequently get their hot starter out of the game, rather than have him face a righty and keep their hot starter in the game. You forgot to factor in Capuano.
     
  18. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    100,591
    Likes Received:
    102,834
    Chris Burke had all of 13 pinch hit appearances last season.
     
  19. The Cat

    The Cat Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2000
    Messages:
    20,817
    Likes Received:
    5,340
    In addition to the incorrect statement on Burke, approximately half of Wilson's games last year were at RFK, one of the most notable pitchers' parks in the game, and his numbers did not show a significant drop at all from his numbers in Colorado. Neither did they in his years prior to Colorado. So much for the "it was all Coors Field" theory.
     
  20. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,645
    Qualls had pitched 3 straight games. He probably was NOT going to pitch unless it was an emergency. Lidge had pitched a lot the previous two games. It would not surprise me if Wheeler was being held out for the save situation last night.

    Over the 3 year period (since I know you like larger sample sizes) lefties are hitting .271 against Pettitte and righties are hitting .240. Lefties' OBP and slugging are both higher against Pettitte than righties.

    Miller was hitting below .190 going into that at bat against Pettitte.

    If it was known for a fact that Capuano would have hit, then I agree, walking Miller (or at least throwing everything a foot outside and in the dirt) was the move to make. Otherwise, assuming Fielder was the pinch hitter, I'd take my chances against Damian Miller every time in that situation.
     

Share This Page