Depending on how he did it I wouldn't really care. If he did it as an entrepreneur developing a new product or system I would applaud him. In fact since his 2016 run he is now a millionaire I have no problem with him doing so through book sales and I doubt if he hadn't had some success in 2016 his books would sell so well. One of the biggest things I disagree with Sanders on is the demonization of wealth and essentially calls to class warfare. That is a textbook example of "savior complex." Actually Trump uses "we" a lot. That said think he uses it in the Royal "we". I agree Sanders isn't interested in wealth generation. That doesn't mean he has a small ego and is doing so purely out of self-sacrifice. Again why would any normal put themselves through the rigors of a presidential campaign unless they had a massive ego? Unless they felt they were the RIGHT person for the RIGHT time? Again I would rather have a president with a big ego than one who had little confidence in themselves. Also I think you're being unfair to career politicians. Many of these people do have exceptional management and leadership skills they could probably make a lot of money in the private sector. That people like Pelosi continue to choose to still stay in office and put up with all of the criticism and headaches of managing a fractious caucus I think has more to do than with just enriching herself. She easily could've stepped down and taken some board positions, stay on the speaking circuit and probably make more money than she has now. Being an ex-politician can be a cushy life. I heard that first hand from Norm Coleman a couple of years after he was defeated by Al Franken.
Actually this is mostly proven to be false through science. People usually hold on to their core ideological beliefs throughout their lives after around 25-28 years of age after the brain has finished developing. Also there are many reasons young people don't vote. Being lazy is just conjecture. The reality is that young people from previous generations had low turnout also. The reality is due to some pretty systemic aspects of life, younger people of any generation will vote less than older people and it has little to do with being lazy. If someone is lazy at 26 they are more likely than not going to be generally lazy for the rest of their lives as signifcant changes in behavior don't usually occur after the brain fully matures. The actual reasons are usually due to socioeconomic factors outside of their control. Younger people are less stable than older people. They move more as older people tend to be more settled. And as you know, when ever you move to a different location, you usually have to register to vote. So in this specific case, if a lazy person who's threshold for not being able to vote is not having the initiative to check for their registration status often looses that barrier once they are settled in one location, they now vote. Older people also generally have more time and flexibility in schedule to go vote as they usually have more upper management work positions with more control of their life with less hours and more control of those hours they have an advantage over younger hourly wage workers who missing a day's worth of hours is the difference between paying off their bills completely and skipping a payment on a couple of bills. The main difference is education and what eras these generations grew under with what circumstances were occuring around the globe during their respective times. Older generations grew up at the hight of the Cold War where Red scare tactics were at their peak. That generation is very sensitive to large government programs. They really trust the capitalist system. Younger generations are far more skeptical about the capitalist system.
I don't think young people change I think they change the political landscape. So what seems like a fringe idea now could be more mainstream later, I think we've seen this with M4A for instance...or Abortion or LGBT rights, etc etc. So when AOC is 60 she might seem like a mainstream boring candidate...The amount of civil rights issues we have passed come from the baby boomers, who were the fringe idealists of the pass, now that stuff is standard fare...of course no one should be discriminated because of race or what they believe, but in the 50s this was far more controversial. You might be right that young voters don't vote on far idealists ends on the spectrum...but what is radical certainly changes. If you went back to the 30s and said that blacks could marry whites and go to school with whites and gay people could marry you'd probably not get very friendly looks and would seem like a psycho. I think Bernie's mistake was just that he was before his time, the generations that he needs support from just aren't at the stage of their life where voting is a priority. I don't agree and it puzzles me why 20 somethings don't vote...but historically it is what it is I guess...I don't think its laziness I think it's a bunch of things... When it comes to AOC...who knows if she'll ever be a presidential candidate, that's a lot to ask of anyone, she was at risk of being run out of her own party though and I think she realized going down with Bernie probably wasn't for the best, not for her or for the things she wants to pass and/or champion. I think for her, I don't ever see her as president...but I could see her definitely being more than a congresswoman though. I think she wants Schumer's spot, old AOC might have tried to run him out of town which would have been a mistake...new AOC realizes she's 30 years old and he's 70 so she can wait it out and build her brand before she moves up the ladder.
Yeah, I'm always showing the graphs and data about generations. I think the era we live in shapes our politics, or rather the era we grow up in. if you are under 35 capitalism has a bit of a stain for you. You've seen people dodge doctors because they don't have insurance (and can go into debt with one doctor visit) and people getting mountains of debt right out of college. Then you have capitalism fueling the destruction of the climate and the planet...and so that's the vision a lot of young people see. I don't think these views will change, I think they will become more mainstream and then something else, something we can't quite predict right now, will take a fringe position.
of course, but that isn't what I said about POTUS electability of young congressman from a Disruptor Movement. Let me repeat, my post above is about AOC and "POTUS electability of young congressmen from a Disruptor Movement." AOC will either change, or not, but either way, likely prove unelectable for POTUS under a disruptor platform. Those POTUS platforms usually don't come from inside the beltway candidates. The Tea Party fizzled as POTUS electability. Dreamers can think they are still for big change (and exact it through Congress), but have no POTUS candidate, so they can dream up reasons for why other candidates still represent their call for major change ... that's why Tea Party moved to Trump ... dreaming that salesman was talking to them. hell, that even happened to Obama voters who dreamed he was going to make huge change ... when he never really said all they thought he'd do. History will show same is true with Trump ... wrt MAGA dreamers ... they believe he's for them, but he's not really.
I predict Bernie or Bernie supporters "Bros" will still be blamed if Biden loses. There will be no blame placed on Biden supporters who have been vicious online since South Carolina. Of course, prior to South Carolina, nobody paid that much attention to Biden. This does not change the fact that Biden is a very weak candidate to go against the morally despicable Trump due to Joe's record, both politically and personally and his declining ability. Biden debating Trump will be high drama and could turn out disastrously for Biden with virtually no upside for him unless Trump is so vicious he engenders sympathy for Biden. It will probably get down to whether the public blames Trump's handling of the Corona Virus. He obviously blew it initially and has made it much worse. Today's news looks like overall it might be somewhat better than expected. One good thing is that the mainstream media aside from Fox hates Trump so Biden will have that going for him as he did against Sanders. Another major issue, if Biden can actually reach out to the approximately 1/3 of the Dem Party that is not content with the old status quo of the Obama-Biden years. Yes, those yearswere better for many and why older voters are so contented. So far there are only pr generic statements reaching out. Biden is somewhat trapped by his conservative ideology (for a Democrat) and his corporate big money donors. The lack of enthusiasm from not just Bernie, but Warren, Kamala, Buttigieg, Yang, etc voters makes him all that more dependent on large corporate donors. This would be a good time for Bezos and Bloomberg to try to let lose their billions, but they will have policy demands on Biden that the more progressive wing will not be enthused by. With the billions in slush funds Trump has just been handed his appeal to the corporate elite will be stronger than ever. I will vote for Biden, like I did for Hillary, Obama, Bill Clinton. And "no" me saying Biden is a weak candidate does not mean I will be responsible if Biden loses.
I'm certainly not disputing this. I was saying how Disruptor Movements that get someone elected to congress, doesn't translate to their viability as POTUS in upcoming elections. What you said here is these young congressmen who win on Disruptor Movements, and stay in congress can change the debate (and certainly control the debate of their local elections), and thereby change laws slowly. Sure, yeah. But that doesn't speak to the electability of AOC as POTUS.
@JayGoogle and @fchowd0311 Let me also clarify that when I say dreamers don't continue voting for the big change candidates, I'm also referring to the phenomenon of aging and that disruptor platforms stop targeting you. Any disruptor platforms that rely on young voters target a revolving door of what is the younger generation, at that moment in time. So, as those who were the young generation, concede their control of the younger generation and its voice...they become no longer the younger generation of voters. And often, the new young have a big change platform that they don't necessarily hop to ... that is, don't identify with. in short, you're not always a 18-30 voter, so the contantly evolving younger generation platform is not always identifiable to you. Did Boomers stop dreaming ... many didn't. But Boomers don't identify with AOC. Just because some remain dreamers, doesn't mean they latch onto new ideas of the younger generation.
Oh yes, that's true. I'm not denying that, even liberal boomers aren't receptive to AOC or her platform as we've seen. I think it is just a natural cycle that young generations just see different issues in the world that they want to address or is more relevant to them specifically while older generations want to stick with what worked for them. And yeah, I get what you mean by the big change candidate targets a revolving door. I don't disagree with that at all.
I'm not voting for trump, never have. That's said any candidate will need to earn my vote. Shocking I know.
How Pollyanna ish. Yeah, the status quo/ elite only fight back if you aren't nice. Nobody could have been a nicer/smoother guy than Obama; he was extremely patient with the elites and kicked the can down the road for the millennial generation. For the most part the corporate elite only went along with him to the extent he stood by pleasantly (or aided?) all the wealth be sucked up to the 1% or the American health profit business. Biden has always smoozed with conservative Republicans and even segregationists like Strom Thurmond.
The difference is the message. A lot of progressive message is "Join us or move out of the way." how does someone react to that? AOC went from someone the DNC wanted to remove to someone they realized they could use because of her profile and her audience. If her message was "No, screw the status quo, screw the elite, screw the DNC..." how do you think that plays out for her in the long run? She gives them no option but to remove her, to primary her, to get her out of the way. If her message is "I'm willing to work with the DNC and help the party win..." then she becomes an asset to the party. I think it's much better for her to work with the DNC, work with Biden, work with Pelosi, and try to get her audience to vote for those people than to actively attack the only party that would even support her. I just don't see how continuing to go down this path works. There are two parties, she has to align with one, so why piss off the one that is willing to give your ideology a platform? The fact is the country isn't ready for her or Bernie's agenda. The primaries, two now, show that. It's a hard pill to swallow but it must be swallowed now. As for Biden's conservative history, yeah, I get it...but it is Biden or Trump, that's our option right now.
Once again Progressives throwing Obama under the bus. He got the first major health care reform passed since the Great Society, he ended Don't Ask Don't Tell, he got two liberal Supreme Court Justices, he expanded national monuments and environmental protections, and so on and so on... This is the definition of making the perfect the enemy of the good.
Yeap. Any future anything including fed and local congress, local governors, all the DA... Trump will nominate two more extreme right to the court. 7-2. You can kiss any progressive agenda goodbye for the next 30-40 years. And you can welcome right extremism as a norm for that period.
Dude nobody cares about your vote. You don’t represent Bernie supporters, Democrats, or independents. You’re part of the insignificant “nanny nanny boo boo, my candidate lost so I get to sulk”. No one needs to convince you of anything. You’ll vote for Biden if you’re a true Bernie supporter or you’ll help trump win. It’s as simple as that. The primaries are the time for “statement” votes, the general is when you suck it up and pick a lesser of evils if your guy lost. I would’ve gladly voted for Bernie in November. Stop being a child
Even electability for a statewide seat (gov or senate) is debatable. The larger the scale, the more likely diverse the groups and interests, and the more difficult it is for a disruptor movement to secure a majority
