Can you explain why he scares you more than Trump? Do you think Bernie will abuse the system of checks and balances of our federal government? Sell out to foerign regimes like Saudi? Use the Justice department as his own personal defense team? Will he use the power of the president by creating consipracy theories and investigating political rivals? Create mass divide with rhetoric against Muslims, African Americans and Latino Americans? And Bernie is more of a Dem in ideology than Bloomberg and even Biden. Just to remind you of a JKF speech: Does JFK sound more like Biden or Bernie here? I've noticed "party unity" rhetoric falls out the window when it's someone who says they are more scared of Bernie than Trump for some posters here. But a Bernie supporter here saying they would rather have Trump than Biden... Oh lawd heaven have mercy it's as if you shot their dog and call you a bro. But then again pretty much every poster here that defends Bernie has said they will vote for the DNC candidate no matter what.
During the GOP primaries, he pulled in new "unlikely" voters - those that were not traditional GOP but liked his xenophobia message. During the general, trade / bad deals were his 'appeal' to the swing voters especially in the midwest. He still almost lost. And he really lucked out with the Comey's last min tape. He also was an unknown and the populace was willing to give him a try even though he was foul mouthed.
So people who have a propensity for right wing rhetoric. Now how about all those people who are apolitical, hardly vote but are poor, struggling with medical bills, student loan debt etc? Do you think they will become "unlikely voters"?
That's what i thought... that they (and younger folks) would show up for Bernie during the DEM primaries. I haven't seen evidence of that.
I mean you stated that they came out for Trump in the general. Young people and apolitical people in general are far more likely to turn out in a general than primaries.
No, I said they came out during the GOP primaries (and then also showed up during the general). To add to this; new here isn't exactly new. It's people that are already leaning to your side but weren't energized enough to go vote. The turnout game. Bernie actually has some of that energy in 2016. I thought he would still have that energy in 2019. He hasn't bought in a surge in turnout. We would know better after Super Tuesday.
Unlike Trump.... Bernie knows how to play the game and play it well.... I get that you're a Bernie supporter and I have no issue with that... But some of the Rhetoric that he spills and some of his ideas are not good... That's my opinion... Bernie is not a Dem.... Bernie will kill the Democratic party the same way Trump has killed the republican party.... T_Man
Bernie knows how to play the game well in terms of what? Doing shady backhanded stuff that is borderline illegal? What do you mean by "play the game"? Trump has effectively eliminated the notion of checks and balances on the executive branch. How would Bernie do something worse than that? Is advocating for universal healthcare that frightening to you? In that JFK speech, did his rhetoric sound more like Bernie or Biden?
Welp, unless the polling released this morning is wildly inaccurate, looks like it’s the beginning of the end for Bernie, looks like Biden is going to distance himself. Greatly disappointing, but I guess I should wait until after the voting happens today before self destructing.
You're going to defend Bernie no matter what or how I answer your questions... The same as Trump supporters defend Trump no matter what... So as I stated before... Bernie scares me more than Trump and he's going to kill the Democratic party no matter if he wins or lose.... T_Man
So sick of the messiah complex that Bernie supporters have with him. If I see "He's the Only One" one more time I'm going to puke. It's all I see or hear. Bernie is full of BS. Everyone should know this... and that's perfectly fine in 2020 as a politician to sell Unicorns and Rainbows. It's fine to shoot for the moon, and say I want to give everyone everything. Some people are pragmatic.... some people are wide eyed and bushy tailed. That's fine. But everyone needs to realize that its not reality. With this Congress, the current electorate, the current judiciary, and the current national budget, there's just no way that Bernie can get his entire platform done, and remake America into an FDR utopia. AND THAT IS OKAY!!! Progress is a good thing. Having aggressive goals is a good thing. I believe both Bernie and Biden can make progress, and both guys can beat Trump although I believe that Biden at the top of the ticket helps down ballot slightly more based on Bernie's poor record in 2018 with the candidates he supported. I'll donate to, and support Bernie if he's the nominee though. I'll do everything I can in my power to get him elected as a citizen in a red state for what it's worth. I just wish Bernie's folks would drop the whole Messiah Complex because if Biden does legit win, I'm afraid that the conspiratorial nature of how Bernie's following looks at the race, that they'll protest in November, vote 3rd party (still not sure what Tulsi is doing, but I'm suspect), and cause major issues in removing Trump just because they buy into the conspiracy theories of the election being rigged against Bernie, and Bernie ALONE is the savior. If Bernie wants to win, instead of creating a ripe conspiracy theory toxic sh$tstorm, maybe just work to expand your electorate, and win the nomination with a wide coalition of voters. I've seen positive things with expanding the Latino vote which is great. More of that... Less of the Messiah preaching to the base complex.
The thing is you really haven't answered anything on your reasons besides regurgitating your premise that you're more afraid of Bernie than Trump which I already knew and then proceeded to say I'm like a Trump supporter. What am I doing differently here in my word choice and rhetoric that is any different than someone defending Biden or Obama or Hillary?
You need to understand that anything but Trump doesn't really mean anything at all .... We don't want massive government take over of multiple sectors of the economy - we just want a few tweaks. We bend on one thing (Healthcare) you want to throw in college , childcare , fossil fuels , government guaranteed jobs and a host of other things all at once all with their own hefty price tags. You guy's won't accept incremental change , you want it all and you want it now while the rest of us aren't so sure we need all that change.
I don't think saying that the DNC party leaders such as Perez have a preference that is obvious and out in the open is a conspiracy theory. Obviously the DNC leaders prefer Biden over Bernie justifiably or not. Even people who don't want Bernie but are Democrats here acknowledge that it's obvious that the DNC party leaders don't want Bernie. That isn't some grand consipracy theory. Bernie isn't going out saying that the polls are rigged. He's just staring that the party leaders really don't want him as the nom. I don't see any posters here treating him as a Messiah. I defend him but acknowledge he won't get most of his proposals done but at least he'll shift the discussion in the right direction with his bully pulpit. I don't see how it helps the insult people who support Bernie.
Sorry man. I was really hoping you'd pay off my student loans. Again, I think you just have a massive caricature of a Bernie supporter in your head that you are venting towards me. Nowhere have I implied that these changes would happen in a course of 8 years. I just find you really puzzling. Again, at leaat 5 times you explicitly stated that you want Medicare for all. That is by far the most expensive part of his plan by a wide margin but student loans makes him Stalin.
To be fair, I don't think he'll kill the party if he wins. I think that's a bit hyperbolic. I think you'll see him aggressively staff up the government especially in "SOCIALIST" (Boogeyman!!) areas such as HUD, HHS, etc. I think you'll see most of his issues coming out of disagreements with how he'll execute on two issues- -Military alignment & pulling back troops -Israeli policy I think he'll have fights on his hands about the budget as the Republicans in Congress will do everything they can to force a shutdown if he spends a nickle on any of his campaign issues that aren't Passed with a super solid bill that passes with a super majority that hasn't already been through the courts when they inevitably test the legality of any bill he writes. But I think he'll be fine in the day to day job, and I don't think he'll ruin the party. I do think though that it'll be a dog fight to get him re-elected, and I worry about what comes after Trump in the GOP/Party of Trump. People like Jim Jordan are coming up through the ranks to be the next Trump, and most of them will be just as corrupt and will likely be smarter versions of Trump. That's what I worry about with a Bernie presidency that isn't effective enough and creates a softening of the electorate for the "Next Trump".
That's just it... Be different.... How you and a lot of Bernie supporters are coming off with your rhetoric is the same as Trump supporters and that's turning a lot of voters off.. People are tired of all the bullying from the left and the right..... It's a Damn shame that grown ups can't sit down and have a discussion without someone trying to demand that their way is the right way and they want listen to any other way. Bernie will have pure HELL trying to get anything pass if he does win, because the repubs will have the house and the senate... So if I say that Bernie scares me, all you had to do was say cool... "You have your opinion" and then left it at that.... T_Man
I feel like I'm being gaslight here. Did I insult you? I thought I asked reasonable questions. I think you are being overly sensitive here. You said you are more scared of Bernie than Trump and I'm curious to know why. I mean this is a debate and discussion forum. You do know that? If someone expresses their opinion, usually people will debate. I don't think Everytime someone expresses an opinion, the respondent has to say "cool I respect your opinion". It seems rather trivial self-evident. Just don't insult and have genuine curiosity in why someone disagrees with you. I'm genuinely curious why you think Bernie is more dangerous than Trump. It seems like you prematurely hip fired at me for no reason where now you are coming of as the aggressive one ironically.
No... certainly not my intention to insult anyone here. Folks here are much more pragmatic than what you see online or even the Bernie supporters like Michael Moore on TV. I think it's the difference of being a Bernie supporter in Texas vs. a Bernie supporter somewhere that you can live in a Bernie bubble. I think that's why folks here like yourself don't reflect that. But I do believe 100% that there is a messiah complex with Bernie, and I do hear and see all the time conspiracies that go waaayyyy beyond just party head preference. I've heard about the California scandal they've rolled out in advance, and of course there is the Iowa conspiracy theories we heard about for weeks. There are plenty of Bernie folks that feel the election will be rigged against Bernie way beyond party preference. In 2016 something like 12% of Bernie voters voted for Trump. Bernie and Biden's camp need to be planning NOW to prevent that happening. That cannot be something we are dealing with in October in trying to bring back pissed off Bernie diehards.
