[Official] "Becoming a better you" by Joel Osteen

Looks like this guy's god pays him real well. It's unfortunate that this "pastor" occupies a place where real miracles happened.

 

BTW- I think Joel is a great guy, nice guy and sincere and humble- there are differences on whether He is really about following Christ's example... I have my reasons for not being a fan- none have to do with Joel's personality.


Joel is a great encourager and motivator, I am sure he encourages thousands of people, but his message and Christ's message are apart IMHO

A pastor left the staff there and came to tell me all about all the problems there at Lakewood, I decided better not listen, I have enough problems at my own chuch.

 

I know the type of message you speak of ... and unfortunately there are many televangelists today that do just that ... their entire message is centered around how you can become rich through God. I've never considered Joel's teachings to be "prosperity gospel." He teaches far much more. He talks about emotional wholeness, learning to forgive, learning not to be judgmental (ironically), how to press through hard times and trust God, holding on to your dreams, not allowing yourself to be subject to negative thoughts, having a good attitude, being honest and diligent at work, being kind to others when they're not kind to you, etc. I have listened to many of his messages and have never once heard anything that was contrary to what the bible teaches.

 

I don't recall the "holding on to your dreams" part in the bible.

 

So you ARE judging him then?

He is just doing what he considers to be the Lords work.

IMO, there is nothing wrong with that.

Since the Bible has been edited and translated many times before getting to the current Cannonized text, I have no problem with his interpetation.

DD

 

So the bible says we're not supposed to have dreams or hold on to them? Is that what you're telling me? Because it does say in Habakkuk 2:2-3: "For the vision is yet for an appointed time; But at the end it will speak, and it will not lie. Though it tarries, wait for it; Because it will surely come, It will not tarry." ... and in Psalms 37:4 - "Delight yourself in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart."

 

The questions concerning beliefs go far deeper.

Is the purpose of Christian life the glory of God or the happiness of the Christian?
What is sin?
How is man saved?
Is salvation necessary?
Is salvation universal?
Is repentance necessary to man's salvation?
Does Christ reform our nature to find personal success?
How is one born of God's spirit?
Did Jesus teach us to acheive our success or to give ourselves for the success of others?

I think I could come up with many more questions that once answered would explain why the message at Lakewood is often challenge or criticized. (understand it is a very high profile church- I don't think it is necessary to criticize Joel, but it is important to understand the simplicity and clarity of Christ's gospel)

As a pastor I am concerned because I find Christians coming to our church trying to act Christian, looking for the steps, the formulas, the mental frame of mind for success, but they have little if any personal prayer and fellowship daily with Christ, they lack a fervent love for hurting and lost people, they seem to decide for themselves what they will give for Christ. I wonder if they have been truly born of God's spirit or if they have decided to be Christians and they are truly motivated to find their own happiness and personal success.

Personal happiness and success may be a legitimate result of Christianity but it is never given by Jesus as the means or motivation of following Him.

The Apostle Paul would be a good example of a pastor. Read his story.

I need help and prayer... If you think of it, please do pray for me, I mean that sincerely.

 

I have no problem with what he is doing, I don't agree with it. I have no problem with him either, I don't want to judge another man's servant. I have problems with his message and methods but I'm not trying to shout him down or prove him wrong at all. Lots of people in our church watch him on TV, I don't say anything. Why should I?

I have no problem with you liking him or his message.

I have enough on my own plate to take care of.

I can't agree with what I have heard and seen, but that is not my business or jurisdiction.

I am giving you my opinion. Even though you didn't ask.

 

I don't think that means your materialistic dreams and desires. I desire an orgy with supermodels. Will I get that? I think it means your true desire, that is true happiness. A kind of happiness that is beyond the temporary happiness of achieving personal ambitions and goals.

 

If Jesus is alive today, do you believe he will be accepted by the majority of Christians in the US? He would most likely be treated as a communist hippy liberal.

If he sopke out against the war in Iraq what conservative Christians listen to him?

 

I definitely understand you and agree with you much more than you might realize. And being a pastor yourself I commend your vision and burden for the people at your church. I think if you actually were to spend some time at Lakewood, you'd find that there is a lot more to the church than what you see on the 30 minute segments broadcast on TV, and that their beliefs are, in fact, no different from yours. I believe there are many people who seem to think that Joel's gospel is "incomplete", but the truth is nobody can claim to have the complete message. God gives people different gifts and different missions. The one thing Jesus said we were to look at was the results - "by their fruit you shall know them", and I think it's pretty clear that their ministry has been incredibly fruitful.

But you are clearly called to a different kind of mission, and I hope and pray that you, like Joel, have a clear understanding of it and pursue it to fruition in spite of what other people may say about you, because as long as God's approval is on it, it doesn't matter what other people say.

 

If you read that verse again, you'll see that the first part says "delight yourself in the Lord..." -- the point is that it's not by accident that we do have personal goals and ambitions and dreams we want to accomplish. The idea is that if we put God first and make our lives revolve around him, then he will fulfill those things for us. Obviously if those desires are selfish wants then by implication we are not putting him first, so that won't hold. What it teaches is that we are supposed to be reflections of God's glory, so he is glorified when we become everything that he created us to be and accomplish what he has created us to do.

 

I appreciate your post so much.
I haven't been to Lakewood in years, I am his father's age and I went their several times because my pastor was a friend of Rev. John Osteen (I was the asst. pastor at our church)

If I had the gift to encourage people like Joel does somebody would probably write a book of encouragement whether I did or not.

Here you go, if you are ever in the area on Sunday be my guest; never put this in a thread before. God bless you.

 

This sounds like double talk. You cant have both your personal dreams, ambitions and god's. That is serving two masters. God fulfills desires your heart, not of your flesh. It is not about worldly desires or dreams.

 

i don't go to church, i'll be the first to admit it. that being said, i can't believe so many people have the message of christ so warped. its not, follow me and you'll be rewarded. its bad things are gonna happen, and the only sure thing to get you through the storm is christ.

the message is universal through every demonination.

 

preach it brother

 

These are all good points. I'm not done reading the book yet. Let me finish and I'll get back to you.

 

No double talk there. The point, like I said and you've just clarified, is that you can't have two masters. God has to be the one and only. We are all created differently with different aspirations and gifts. I think what is lacking is understanding -- when people hear "your dreams", the first thing they think of is "a six figure income, house in the 'burbs, a luxury car and a boat". There's much more to it than that...and Joel himself is actually a great example. If you look beyond his wealth and fame etc., you see that he was given a great gift of encouragement and a desire to help people live better lives, and now he has seen that desire fulfilled. To a person like that, seeing thousands of people write in with testimonies about how their lives have been impacted by his ministry means so much more than all the money in the world.

The whole idea is "becoming everything I was created to be". And it only happens, like you've said, when you put everything else in second place to God.