So Dawkins is saying that because some people use religion to justify horrible things that all religion is bad and should be done away with. Should we abandon science because some people believed in eugenics? What about social Darwinism? People are always looking for excuses to justify their wrongs. Religion isn't the only thing they turn to and if it weren't here, people would just find other justifications.
shut up, I'm rich because i work hard and god told me so, you're poor because you're a lazy bum. jesus said judge people didn't he? the irony is that judging people is the one thing I think you can not find any contradition from jesus on. its the one thing he doesn't want us doing, including judging ourselves.
Something about two masters... I don't think any major religion promotes following materialistic desire as a path to true happiness. It conflicts with spirituality and is a source of suffering.
I agree with this, and would argue it is exactly what Christ taught. I think it's dangerous to stand in a pulpit and point to God as a means to an end.
This is true, but at the same time, the bible does offer promises of an abundant life, and there are many examples of people in the bible that served God and were extremely wealthy e.g. Abraham. The difference is that we're supposed to seek after God and put him before all else, and when we do that he takes care of the rest ("seek first the kingdom of God...and all these things shall be added unto you.") The hard part is putting God first -- to the point that you are willing to lose those things for God's sake, which is what Christ referred to when he said "take up your cross and follow me", and "whosoever shall seek to gain his life shall lose it, but whosoever loses his life shall preserve it."
See my post above for the answer. It's not about the wealth, it's about your heart and what you value the most.
God does care about helping others like what missionaries do and He cares about people learning about Him and wanting a relationship with Him. It's hard to have missionary programs or good Sunday School programs (just to name two) if there isn't some kind of investment put into it.
What is "utterly false" - that he has his name on the church or people claiming he is wrong for doing so? If it is the former, you are dead wrong - not only is his name on the CC, but his name has a logo. If it is the latter, well there is no right or wrong to that.
Bottom line is that everyone is guessing what God wants, because only God knows, and until he comes down and says "Right, this is what I want." it is all hearsay. I think Joel is doing a fine job, and if he gets rich doing it, good for him. It seems there is a lot of jealousy going on in the ridicule of his teachings. DD
You understand this is what Christians literally believe happened, right? So when someone stands up in a Christian church and points to something that seems to be somewhat opposite of what Jesus said...and, in fact, does a statement where everyone holds up their Bibles to repeat in concert that it is the inspired word of God...then...that's a little...strange to me.
I hear ya. What God chooses to bless me with, that's great. Thanks for that. But thanks also for the hard times...for the lessons learned there....where there's maturation and not comfort. God is in all that to a Christian. I also believe we have a far better understanding of God through what Christ taught than through stories in the OT. Theological concept called emerging revelation....we see God going from a very hallowed foreign concept in the OT..to "Father" with Moses...to "Daddy/Abba" with Jesus. Where there is any question in the Bible, I think we err with what Christ said. And how he lived. And who he pointed to. He said, "look the world isn't gonna like you because of me." The world isn't the world in the sense we understand it...it's the "system." the "man." A world that lives with a mindset of competition amidst scarcity instead of cooperation amidst abundance. A world that leads to greed which leads to hunger and suffering and hurting for others. That's the world that gets really uncomfortable with one who says, "sell what you got and follow me" to the rich man. Who says it's easier for a camel to walk through a needle's eye than for a rich man to attain heaven. So the prosperity gospel freaks me out. I realize it's what people WANT to hear. That God wants them to be rich. But I think it's anything but true.
I hear ya Max, but each religion has it's own beliefs, some take the bible literally others take it as more of a guideline. IMO, no one should be judging the other ones interpetation. "Judge not, lest ye be judged". DD
There is a huge difference between judging someone and discerning their message. Paul specifically credited a church for checking in scripture to make sure his message was consistent with it. I'm not talking about interpreting some scripture here and there. I'm talking about a consistent theme throughout the Bible to be wary of material wealth. And to not treat God as a means to an end. That's not exactly fringe thinking! Joel holds up that Bible each week and has his churchmembers follow along with him in a creed that gives testament to the truth that's inside. Please understand, I'm not judging Joel. I'm not condeming the man. I'm sure he's a super nice guy. He certainly appears to be. Many of the messages he preaches freak me out, though. And prosperity gospel in general freaks me out. I've literally heard people say, "you wouldn't be so sick if you really believed in God." And I've heard a pastor preach that "if you pray hard enough, you'll find money in your otherwise empty wallet." I'm sorry...but I'm not remotely cool with that. And I don't have to judge one's soul to have a problem with that kind of teaching when it pretends to be from Jesus.
proverbial nail on head jesus never says there is something wrong with being rich, but he also never preaches that wealth is a reward for his teachings, it has nothing to do with spirituality.
except to the extent he actually says he views it as an impediment..."but all things are possible with God" is how he ends that.
I think there is a point of defending Christ and His message, who has read the gospels and found Christ weird? Anyone can read the gospels for themselves, but when you look at all that is labelled 'Christian' it is all over the place and just doesn't seem true to the story. But when you read Christ, read the gospels, it's simple... If you read the gospels and somehow get the picture of an American TV preacher...
