I think my general problem about Osteen is twofold: 1. He talks about success and admits that he is kind of like a self-help guru but what has he ever done? He dropped out of Oral Roberts and has done nothing but work for his father. So what does he know about success, commitment, etc.? Now, obviously he is successful now but he has only become so by talking about how to be a success (through God). So in life he really had done nothing until he started telling people how best to live their lives. That is odd to me and, personally, I would never feel that he had anything to offer me (especially when his message is far from original). 2. if we want to put him in the religious context he has no training. I do think it counts for something to study the bible in an at least somewhat academic setting, with people who know more about various subjects helping along and covering theories. Obviously his dad John was a trained Southern Baptist and one can presume Joel "studied" under him but it is still very different. So I guess in both examples I could never consider him an authority, intelligent voice, or teacher. If anyone can talk about anything and be paid millions then what is the point of anything?
I can understand that, but I don't think his attendees and customers are ignorant of what other pastors, priests and preachers can offer. Wouldn't Olsteen's motivational speeches compel those who want a more complete picture of Christianity to look for more? The sensational garbage from Pat Robertson and his ilk seem to have the opposite effect, where they invoke God in disasters as the result of our sins. Yet you won't hear as many Christians call him a heretic or denounce his speeches as "unChristian-like". I don't presume to know Olsteen's intentions. I guess the best indicator would be where that money will go according to his will. It just seems to me that he's opening doors for people and allowing them to think of what Christianity means. Maybe I'm just cynical in thinking that the whole carrot and stick aspect is inherent in all churches because a large group of its followers are casual observers.
pastors follow a Jesus who didn't have a place to sleep, who had no material drive or status, who with his hands touched the sick, the poor and the unrighteous, who gave instead of received, He forgave, He did not tell anyone how to be successful unless it was with a towel washing feet like a common slave, but He told everyone who would listen how to receive everlasting life. Jesus was born in an animal barn, illegitimate, into a nation that was despised and treated with prejudice and hate; He lived among a corrupt religious system; He did not raise any money, sell any books, or have a building. He wasn't interested in starting a church, a religious organization or a big ministry. He worked with 12 common men closely, one of them betrayed Him to His death. He went about healing hurting and sick people, forgiving sinners, teaching crowds of people and He only gave one description of himself: "I am meek and lowly of heart" For such a poor, simple man He sure has stirred the world for centuries. We pastors don't need to look any further than Jesus to see clearly the path we are to follow. God help us.
Take that post of the year trophy...shine it up and give it to DaDakota for this one. That was CLASSIC man.
I was thinking the same thing...seems a little vain for a guy whose supposed to be spreading the word of Christianity.
all good. i think all of that is entirely possible. and don't get me wrong...i'm not a pat robertson fan. i'd much rather hang out with joel than pat.
I'm not a big fan of these super-church pastors in general. For many of them it's all about getting people to believe what you believe. Not all of them, of course. Having never seen an Osteen sermon I cannot comment on what type he is. What is interesting though is that the people in this conversation who seem the most hellbent on converting others and making them believe what they believe are the non-Christians/atheists/non-religious. They're basically the same as many of the super-church pastors they decry. To those of you: Why is it so important that everyone believe exactly what you believe? What bothers you so much about differing opinions?
I have no issue with Joel. If what he says make people FELL good or even better DO GOOD What exactly is the issue? I mean . . . If some one does good for the wrong reason is the act no longer good? I understand we would like everyone to be good for goodness sake but We *are* a capitalist nation with Capitalistic values Rocket River
I think that a lot of people have an issue with Joel amassing so much wealth by preaching. Most people of faith have not seen a man of the cloth with a million dollar house, a Mercedes, and a Rolex. There are reasons for this that I do not care to delve into at this point. From a faith perspective, I think the detractors have a point. That being said...you also make a really good point. If Joel gives these people something they emotionally need in order to live better lives, so be it.
He used to play in the afternoons, around 4pm....I live in Austin now, and rarely get back to Houston. I did go back when my Mom was sick and went down to play and saw him...still didn't know he was on TV at the time (this was 3 years ago) and he told me he took over his father's ministry. I was a little shocked as he always told me he wanted to be in television...but overall, he is a GREAT guy, very genuine and hustles on the basketball court. We used to start every game we played together with a back cut......ah...good times... Jesus loves the back cut. DD
I'm not an atheist, but Dawkins makes some intriguing observations and I can see where he's coming from. Though I was raised Catholic, I tend to lean towards his views, though in my day-to-day life I personally don't really care or have a problem with anyone believing what they happen to believe. But my point is, I can see why he does have a problem with doing just that:
Here is another solution. http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/18085...06522-129116,2966755-100-wmv-s.6206547-129116
Responses like this show just how easy it is for all of us to sit in our comfy chairs and point judging fingers at people without knowing them. We plaster them with false intentions and condemn them because we disagree with them, or because they've achieved what we cannot, or both. It amazes me how many people here can unashamedly call Joel Osteen a fake preacher, "motivational speaker", etc. while at the same time admitting that they've either never watched a sermon of his or being to his church. I've even seen a couple of posts here claiming he is wrong for putting his name on his church (which, by the way, is utterly false). Many of you people are simply jealous because he is so wealthy, so you lean on your preconceived stereotypical notions of how rich a pastor is "supposed"/allowed to be. I've seen all kinds of false/mischaracterizing statements here about Joel's ministry and Lakewood. There are probably two or three posters in this thread who have actually attended Lakewood church or met/interacted with Joel. We just love to point accusing fingers, don't we? It makes us feel good. It makes us feel bigger. Here's a man who is probably one of the nicest guys in the world, who has done nothing but positively impact the lives of millions of people through his ministry. A man who wears his emotions on his sleeve and never puts on a mask, routinely breaking into tears on stage when he starts to speak about how God has blessed him or about his late dad and his family. His church is about as real as church gets -- and they're amazing at being able to connect to individual people despite their size. The genuine love I have seen and experienced among the people at Lakewood is greater than any other church I've been to. But forget all that. Pastors shouldn't be that rich. His message is too positive (I cannot even begin to describe how hypocritical that criticism is). He's just making money off people. Did ya hear about the airplane incident with his wife? "I think he's a megalomaniac!" "A pastor isn't supposed to be like that ... I have never listened to his messages but he sounds like a weasel." Perhaps it all boils down to simple jealousy. Or knee-jerk anti-Christian sentiment. I don't know. This sounds really cliche'd, but when you point a finger at someone, there are four pointing back at you. And many of you guys pointing fingers at Joel are gross hypocrites.
most pastors get criticized, sometimes deserving, sometimes not, it's not about Joel, it's all about Jesus I knew Joel's dad, John. I didn't know Joel except he was a little boy at the old church (east end) careful following a man. Jesus made it very clear to follow Him I know lots of people who attend Lakewood, I am friends with a youth pastor who was on the church staff (though he just left the church 4 months ago) there is a lot of reaction to the Lakewood ministry, leave it to God Dear Christians, read the bible and do what Jesus says you may not find a better you, but you can 'sell all you have and follow'
