Not really. IMO, saves (by themselves, at least) are a pretty poor analytical stat for closers, and they don't even show up on the radar for setup men. A middle reliever gets plenty of chances for blown saves, but they rarely get the chance to pick up a save - giving up a lead in the 7th inning is considered a blown save. So Save% for a 7th/8th is a completely illogical stat to use.
If a pitcher can't hold a game in the 7th or 8th inning, when there is less pressure on him, he is unlikely to do any better closing a game. There is a reason why setup men are setup men and not closers with few exceptions. Either way, it is way too early to give up on Valverde. The worst thing Cooper could do the next time there is a save opp is NOT go to Valverde. If Valverde doesn't turn the corner after at least a few more chances, that is when you consider making a change.
What he said plus not all saves situations are created equal. Full-time closers often only come in save situation to start an inning w/ no one on base. Middle relievers often come into save situations in the middle of an inning with men on base. If Qualls comes in the 7th with a one-run lead with no outs and a man on third and gives up that run, he gets a blown save (if he doesn't give up the run, he still doesn't get a save). Much harder situation than starting an inning with no one on base.
the run is tacked on to the pitcher that put the runner on base. the relief pitcher doesnt get a blown save... at least i dont think so.
Please compare Mariano Rivera's and Trevor Hoffman save percentage as closer vs. their save percentage as set-up men. Both had (50-60% as set-up men) significantly higher save percentages as closers than set-up because of the points we just illustrated.
The inherited runners are charged to the departing pitcher, but the blown save is still charged to the pitcher that allowed them to score.
No, Dickau is right. It's a blown save but the ER goes to the pitcher who let the guy get on base (assuming the runner didn't get on by means of an error). I was wrong. Save percentage is not a good measurement for comparing middle relievers to closers. Closers usually come in to start the 9th with no men on base and have a better chance at not getting a BS. Either way, the point is that we've got Valverde and all we can do is hope he turns it around. He is certainly better than what he has shown so far. The good thing about him is that he is a fierce competitor and appears to truly have a short memory. Those are, at least, very good attributes for a closer.
What have you done with BrooksBall? Where is the knee-jerk panic of his Rockets posts? So measured...logical....does....not....compute......growing...dizzy.....
I predicted good things from Chacon after spring training, we need to sign this guy up for more years
What... doesn't... compute... is that you, apparently, judged a person's character and intelligence based on one thread that was created out of frustration. Fans come in all shapes and sizes. Not all of them are eternally optimistic and, more often than not, fans act irrationally in response to the emotions inherent in sports and competition. For evidence, read the past few pages of this thread.
Holy crap...Well, this is only one and it happens...sux that it did, but it did, but I believe V will come back and atone for this game...
Valverde sucks. I have always been a staunch Lidge supporter and been criticized for it by some people, so I am kind of laughing at the performance of our new closer. The correct thing to do last night would have been to let Chacon start the 9th inning and try to close it out. If he allowed a runner or two to get on, then I would have brought in my closer.
My hopes for this evening. Astros take a lead into the ninth with Oswalt going 8 strong innings to recapture his form. Then, Valve blows it again in the 9th. I'm not kidding...I would actually enjoy this...because I'm twisted in that way. If things are going to suck, then let them suck. In fact, I hope Valve can blow the remaining 2 games of this series in the 9th. Then, he can hit himself in the face with his pumping fists.
i like bourn so trading lidge to get him isn't really an issue to me. valverde blowing chunks kinda sucks though. i figured going into the season i had a solid read on oswalt and valverde, now i have no idea what's going on.
"People who think that they know when a manager should bunt and when a manager should pitch out and when a manager should make a pitching change are amateurs. People who have actually studied these issues know that the answer disappears in a cloud of untested variables." -- Bill James
