did you actually see the play? it's easy to execute when your returner has sped by everyone. all the pre-draft nonsense is useless noise. dig beneath the braying hyperbole, and bush was the consensus best player by the majority of, take your pick: scouts, nfl GMS, so-called draft experts, etc. all the sayers/sanders crap was just that; every bit as meaningless as the williams= reggie white/bruce smith crap. if we're using.... mel kiper's expectation? ok, he's been a disappointment. if we use the criteria of his impacting an nfl game, he's been very good. and bush has shown the ability to, even with limited touches, break a game wide open. he had, like, 160-something total yards from scrimmage and it's not his fault his coach had someone else in the game when it mattered. and when was the game over? do you mean the final drive of the game in which the trojans were desperately trying to get down field and set-up a potential game-winning field goal? that game wasn't OVER until it was actually over. there was no "garbage" time in that game. as for the decoy aspect of things, when the texans made williams the top pick, the expectation was that he'd draw enough attention to free up everyone else, right? actually, that's a rhetorical question. so why is expecting bush to have a similiar impact somehow a neative?
Which *should* make his per-carry averages go up. Not only is his workload lower, but teams have to worry about Duece as well. And he also has a pro-bowl QB and WR, which means defenses can't be teeing off on him. And yet, his per-carry stats are terrible. Fair enough. I could see that. I wouldn't pick a guy who couldn't carry the load at #1 hoping that 5 years from now, he might be able to do that if he develops properly. I wouldn't take many running backs #1 overall regardless, let alone one like that. What are the variety of ways? He has yet to do so running or receiving. So you've got punt returns so far. There are a lot of guys who are electrifying on the field, and they can be found in the lower rounds - that doesn't make a top pick. What makes a top pick is being able to consistently make an impact. No, 84 yards is not 84 yards at the end of the day. 84 yards on 1 play is far superior than 84 yards on 20 plays. He's less effective as a running back as the guy coming off an ACL tear and he's less effective as a receiver than the 7th round draft pick being paid peanuts. Fair enough. The difference between building a team around a guy and listing the top players in the league? Really? Priest Holmes was a top-3 running back about 2 years ago - I wouldn't use him as a cornerstone of a team though. Building a team around a guy is based on what you can see that he WILL do rather than what he is doing at the moment. LT had 100+ yards in 3 of his 4 games of his career. You could see what type of impact he could have right away. I just don't see it with Before the draft, I thought DeAngelo Williams would be the best back in the draft. Right now, I would say Maroney - I didn't know much about him pre-draft. So if you're talking rookie running backs, I would start there. If you're talking young players or other positions, there are plenty of other options.
Yes, I did see the play. He beat one man to the corner. "Everyone" else was perfectly blocked. Did you see the play? He was the consensus #1 player (hype). Has he been the best rookie so far? Top 5? Even the best at his position? The hyperbole still exists. Did you not see the recently posted article, on how his punt return shows us we made a huge error, and puts him back in the Bowie/Jordan situation? When? Why does he have less of those than other RB's like Norwood, Jones-rew, D.Williams or Maroney? They all have shown that ability to, and have more game breaking plays. My point is Bush hasn't shown anything "special". Those other backs are doing the same thing, and their numbers are better..even if you just go by game-breaking plays. The game was practically over after Vince's 2 point conversion. The trojans needed a miracle to get the ball down the field, and that's why the Horns were more than happy to let Bush have a long run (and take time off the clock) as opposed to getting beat deep. My posts aren't Williams > Bush posts. I think Mario has sucked butt so far. However, I don't regret passing on Bush specifically. He doesn't even look like he will be the best back to come out of this draft. I have admitted many a time that Bush is making an impact and Mario isn't (save his last game, with a game winning tip). But Bush hasn't shown stud-like ability and has looked bad running the ball, and typically RB is the easiest offensive position to make an impact when you first enter the league.
Found this on the Houstonprofootball site. Although it is a week old, Bush's running/receiving numbers really haven't improved. "What a difference a week makes. With most of the media (including us) ready to declare that the Texans blew it when taking defensive end Mario Williams over running back Reggie Bush, Williams gets 1.5 sacks and makes a game-saving deflection of a pass during a two-point try that, if successful, would have knotted the Houston-Miami game at 17 with less than two minutes to play. Although comparing the stats of Bush to Williams will always be an apples and rutabagas proposition, our pal John Marie from 990-AM in New Orleans has put together some interesting numbers regarding Bush and other rookie running backs. Through 25 percent of his rookie season, Bush has 45 carries for 147 yards (3.3 avg.), 23 catches for 187 yards (8.1 avg.), and no touchdowns. He's also 25th in the league in punt returns, with 9 tries for 57 yards (6.3 avg.). Pats running back Laurence Maroney, the 21st overall pick in the draft, has 60 carries for 294 yards (4.9 avg.), 6 receptions for 76 yards (12.7 avg.), and three touchdowns. Panthers running back DeAngelo Williams, the 27th overall pick in the draft, has 25 carries for 135 yards (5.4 avg.), 7 catches for 41 yards (5.9 avg.), and one touchdown. Colts running back Joseph Addai, the 30th overall pick in the draft, has 46 carries for 207 yards (4.5 avg.), 11 catches for 72 yards (6.5 avg.), and one touchdown. Titans running back LenDale White, the 45th overall pick in the draft, has 18 carries for 63 yards (3.5 avg.), two catches for 5 yards (2.5 avg.) and no touchdowns. Jags running back Maurice Jones-Drew, the 60th overall pick in the draft, has 20 carries for 118 yards (5.9 avg.), 9 catches for 91 yards (10.1) avg., and two touchdowns. He's eighth in the league in kickoff returns. Falcons running back Jerious Norwood, the 79th overall pick in the draft, has 26 carries for 217 yards (8.3 avg.), one catch for 12 yards (his quarterback, after all, is Michael Vick), and one touchdown. Though these numbers don't indicate that Bush is a bust, his contributions to date aren't head and shoulders above the performances of his peers. He's fourth in rushing among the bunch, and only he and former USC teammate LenDale White haven't scored. Likewise, Bush has the lowest average gain per attempt. (And, please, hold the e-mails arguing that Bush is sharing touches with a veteran tailback. So is every other guy on that list.) In all, this supports the notion that capable running backs are essentially fungible, and that it rarely makes economic sense to give a tailback a truckload of money, because a team almost always can find someone nearly as good for less money. It's more important (as the Cardinals and Edgerrin James are learning) to ensure that the offensive line is opening holes through which the running back can run. Then again, the Saints needed a hero -- and they found him. But while he may be a savior, it's becoming increasingly obvious that he's not a Sayers."
Same here. For me, it isn't about Bush vs. Mario Willimams at all anymore. The Texans did what they had to do, they went for defense. That is over and done with in my mind and go Texans. I'm a Bush fan and he is better off on the Saints at this point, it was fate for him IMO. Most backup running backs like Michael Turner come in when the starter needs a rest. But Bush is so versatile, that he can be their #1 receiver or returner, or a decoy, whatever the Saints need him to be. If Deuce goes down, he'll be that #1 back and will have better rushing numbers and less receiving numbers. Plus the way the fans and the superdome is rocking and chanting his name is all part of it too, that all affects a game. I'm sure the saints owners feel like that got a BARGAIN for paying 6mm per year for this guy. He may not be the next Barry Sanders, you guys are probably right about that one, but he is the 1st Reggie Bush, I can't think of anyone to compare him to right now. He's a special guy.
Part of that is he had the vision and instincts to go to that corner and follow his blockers. He didn't dance around this time, he just WENT. Hopefully he is learning that this is the way to run in the NFL.
How can you have instincts to do it at one point... but you have to learn how to do it at other points? Aren't instincts just that... things that are innate, and don't require "learning"? The bottom line is that he's a good player... but not a guy who's going to revolutionize the game/once in a century player that the media built him up to be. If anybody is on here saying "reggie bush sucks", that's stupid. But if you're still here saying the Texans made a mistake that will ruin them for years to come, that's also stupid.
in retrospect the texans should have drafted bush, traded him to jets for jets two pics and took d'brick and moroney or secondary help.... im not impressed with mario or bush or young....all three look average...or below average....bush lucked out with with that touchdown...kinda like how mario lucked out on that sack since no one was guarding him actually, mario looks really really really slow and bad....bush as far as running back looks weak ....the texans didnt want to draft him #1 as a third receiver plus a team having a bunch of #1 picks eats up alot of cap space and has been shown ineffective....i wish the texans plugged more holes by trading the pick
reggie bush = dante hall case closed gosh, theres like 4 rookie running backs id rather have over bush i understand why the texans went with Williams, unfortunately they took the wrong williams...deangelo williams would have been better the texans need better scouts so they dont f-up again.....there was SO much talent in this draft, they should have traded down for more picks in this draft and they could have filled O-line help Rb-help and Secondary all in one draft instead of slow-mo williams
Hey I agree with you. Westbrook was the guy I was saying he was most like as well. Westbrook won a big game a couple of years ago for Phily on a punt return too. (Tiki Barber or Faulk were other comparisons, but both had shown more between the tackles ability and workhorse roles coming out than Bush had. Tiki had already shown himself as a tough nut at Virginia. The Barry Sanders comparisons were just ridiculous) But here you got it wrong. The Iggles don't use Westbrook this way because he has great hands, they use him the way they do because he can't absorb the hits of a typical workhorse and isn't great in tight space. These have always been my concerns with Bush as a franchise back and I have not seen anything to discount them. TheCat is right. 3rd down long yardage runners always have inflated YPC, not deflated. Same thing happened at SC, when LenDale was the short yardage and goal line runner where Bush got carries in more favorable situations for the big runs. (Nonetheless SC's Oline and offensive balance was so great LenDale still had a great average) I agree. Bush is a useful player, a good player. Maybe even an excellent player. I had no problem with him being a top 3 pick. But slam dunk flawless prospect, or best running back prospect ever or in recent memory, crazy. Same kind of hype not meeting reality that lead to a landslide Heisman race that at most should have been a toss up. Granted it is not primarily his fault his hype is greater than the player, but he nor does he try to publicly dispel it with any semblance of humility either. Hey I am no fan of OU or Pederson, but yeah I have been more impressed with Pederson and have fewer doubts about him being an impact pro RB. I was telling you guys to pick up an extra 2nd for this guy, if you wanted a 3rd down back, open field back and return back, Jones-Drew (at 60) was an excellent value. But I do give the Saints credit. Adding Brees, Colston and Bush to a healthy Horn and Duece has given them a lot of weapons. Bush is part of this. And Brees has been much better than I thought there. I still think their D will kind of stink once the emotion slows, but we will see. Of course I thought Haslett sucked and he may have been part of them problem.
So you can respond to that part of my post (to someone else), but continue to duck the question (mine and others) of where you were with your "I love Bush" commentary last week after a sub-par game, at best? So in case ya missed it the first 4 times folks asked, where were you last week when Bush stunk up the barn?
Hey genius! The reason why the Saints are 4-1 is NOT because of Reggie Bush, try Drew "Cool Breeze" Brees and an improving defense. So far, the Saints have won alot on emotion and passion, but they are fixing to play the Eagles and the Ravens coming up. If you're so PRO-Saints then dont be afraid to check back in after one of those certain losses. The Saints are no longer a bottom feeder team but, they are in a tough division with the Falcons, the Panthers and they still have to go to the Bay to play the Bucs later on. Granted 2-1 early in divisional play but dont count on this continuing ... Melting down? How do you meltdown when the first 4 years of your teams existence are: 4-12, 5-11, 7-9 and 2-14. Your point there makes no sense. I dont think anyone on here is making those last second bookings for the Super Bowl but apparently you think the Saints WILL be there. There's about at least half a dozen teams in the NFC that are better than the Saints not even including the whole NFL. Blablabla!
Not a Saints fan, but I doubt there are a half dozen teams in the NFC better than NO. Drew Brees is a damn fine QB and he has greatly improved that team.
Chicago, Philadelphia, Seattle, Carolina, Dallas, New York off the top of my head. Possibly St. Louis and Minnesota as well.
They have had a pretty easy schedule...I expect them to go under .500 for the remainder of the season.
I agree with you JoeJoe on your assessment of Brees. My dissent was directed toward jgreen91's post of that we're melting down? Whatever the hell that is supposed to mean and that he doesnt post unless the Saints win. What a homer! The Saints are greatly improved but they will be hard pressed to go to the playoffs with the competition within their division much less the conference. Bush seems to be a good fit with what the Saints are doing but continually using a 64 million dollar player as a decoy? Dont think that philosophy will continue to work though. It's great what is happening in New Orleans and I couldnt be happier for them after all the hell they've gone through for over the past year. I have friends that live over there. They deserve every bit of happiness they can get and I wish for them all the best.
What do you want me to do? I haven't posted much in the past week or so, I've been out of town. So, as soon as the Saints lose another game then Reggie and the Saints are going to suck right? The Saints will lose more games this year, Reggie will probably have some sub-par games going forward thats a given. But both he and the Saints are already doing better than all of you longhorn homers predicted and will admit. And you all hate it. Am I right or wrong? The sad part is, all of you guys are actually pulling for and hoping the Saints lose. Think about that. That's sad. Pathetic. Each and everyone of you taking shots at me in this thread are huge longhorn fans. You guys don't like Reggie Bush, you don't like the Saints because of Reggie Bush and no matter what he does, you never will. The Saints can win the SuperBowl and bush can win MVP and you will call him Dante Hall or say he can't run between the tackles, or he isn't a true running back. Ok Ok, Bush had a clutch game breaking punt return to win the game, but yeah Drew Brees is the reason they won. So lets just forget it. Lets agree to disagree, at least I have an open mind about it. The Bush hate is a ****ing joke around here. It is nothing like this on some of the NFL boards I frequent. Not even close.
More than the punt return for touchdown, I liked seeing him fight for a couple of big first downs. And, ok, I liked him pumping up the crowd just before the return. But really... I don't see why this is so heated. He ain't Barry Sanders, and neither is he Dante Hall... But come on cut him some slack... he's doing everything the Saints ask of him and doing it pretty well. I can understand Texans fans being defensive when they hear things like "What a mistake not taking Bush" etc. I think Reggie would help more than Mario, but there are many ways to build a team and I can't blame a new coach for wanting defense first. If DD was healthy, I don't think Texans fans would give a crap what Reggie is doing or not doing.
Oh ya. One more thing. I was checking my fantasy stats and Bush leads the entire NFL in receptions. Not receptions by a running back, but receptions period with 34. Marvin Harrison is close behind with 32. Not bad for a rookie backup running back eh?
What about his 54 carries for 170 yards w/ 0 TDs? That's not all that great IMO. Also...Bush is last in the league in yards per reception, I'm not taking anything away from Bush, but 60M+ for a wide receiver is a lot to pay. BTW...you say everyone that doesn't like Bush is a Longhorn fan? Give me a break...Bush hasn't lived up to the hype (so far) and you know it. There is a difference between being a Bush hater and being a poster who realizes that Bush isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread. So you were out of town for a week...care to talk about Mario's 1.5 sacks and game winning tip? I mean, this is a Mario Williams thread.
