[Official] Astros Off Season

Thats the 2nd time you have said this bs. First of all, calm down and try not to be rude. 2nd please understand that I never said defense doesnt matter. What I did say was that Rolen did not dominate nearly long enough to be in the hall. Just look at his career year by year on baseball reference. It starts out great but then resembles nothing close to a hall of famer. Defense matters and Rolen was a great defender. But so was Graig Nettles. Ozzie Smith is the best defensive shortstop ever so yeah he gets in. Rizzuto finally got in I think and it was a travesty that he didn’t get in sooner because of his defense. Dominating at ss the way Ozzie did is just different than what rolen did at an easier position. Also, Ozzie was at the top of his game, improving in all aspects as his career went on, for much longer than Rolen. Ozzie’s is a bit different than the career arc of scott rolen.

 

God, spring training REALLY needs to get here.

 

So basically it works like this.

SS is traditionally the only position that defense alone can get a player in the hall of fame. It’s the only position where a player doesn’t have to have HOF level offensive numbers to be selected. Catcher might end up being another. Paul Blair is thought to be one of the best CF of all time. He played a long time. He’s not in the hall because he didn’t hit enough. Was he a hall of fame level defender? Yes he was.

Rolen just didn’t do enough offensively for long enough.

Brooks Robinson is the exception at 3rd. His offensive numbers were great for his time but still not HOF. His defense got him in. Typically regarded as the best defensive 3rd baseman of all time

 

What is up with all this Scott Rolen talk?

No, Rolen isn't Mantle or Mays (although both were hopped up on greenies).

However, only like 25 position players all time are in the same category of Mantle or Mays.

Having said that, that isn't the measure to get into the Hall of Fame.

Kirby Puckett, Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Roberto Alomar, Jim Thome and 85% of the Hall of Fame are not in the group of Mantle and Mays. Are they Hall of Famers?

Scott Rolen was the best and most consistent defensive third baseman of his era, and one of the 4-5 best ever defensively. He won 8 Gold Gloves, was a 7 time all star and was a Silver Slugger as well.

He also wasn't only good early in his career, he was good late in his career with the Reds..... he also was dealing with pretty bad chronic injuries in the middle of his career.

While he never won an MVP, he did have a pretty good PER/162 statline with an average of 70 extra base hits and 100+ rbi per full season, and a solid OPS of .855.... and one season he was worth 9 -WAR, which is considered an MVP type season most years.

There is more than one way to get in the Hall of Fame..... and I would point out that Rolen had a higher career and per season WAR than Craig Biggio.

Couple that with there being so few 3rd basemen in the HOF and he is deserving.....

Arrenado will make the HOF and if Bregman has a great second half of his career, maybe he will too.

Rather than arguing about why Rolen..... why not argue about how its a travesty that Lou Whitaker ISN'T in the Hall of Fame.

 

Brooks Robinson has a career OPS of .723 and an OPS+ of 105. For his career, Robinson was a barely above average hitter.

Scott Rolen has a career OPS of .855 and an OPS+ of 122. For his career, Rolen is a well above average hitter.

Paul Blair isn't in the Hall of Famer because there have been a lot of very good fielders in centerfield that also could hit. That isn't the case at 3rd base.

 

I'm a big hall guy. Which isn't to say that I say let everyone in- Baseball's HOF is waaaaay more exclusive than the other sports- it's just to say that I recognize that modern players are getting screwed over compared to those that came before them. The standard for inductions shouldn't be "were you the greatest of all time at your position AND did we also like you and you didn't get caught doing drugs?" if not go **** yourself you can't get in.

Read this article. It's beyond obvious that it's getting harder and harder to get into the HOF. Rolen was just fine as an induction point. He was better than a bunch of the least deserving and fits right in the middle of production for his position. Shouldn't have taken this long.

https://www.mlb.com/news/hall-of-fame-mlb-induction-standards

 

I'm headed there mid March can't wait.

 

My wife and I recently decided we are moving from Idaho to Titusville, Florida.

150 miles from West Palm.

Quick easy 2 hr drive down I-95.

 

Ok I guess you didn’t see where I said Brooks is the exception. He played in the 60’s and 70’s when pitching dominated and offensive numbers were down. He was a good hitter for his time though. His defense got him in. He’s considered the best defensive 3rd baseman of all time. Like I said, he was the exception at 3rd base. But what you said about CF holds true for 3b. There are plenty of players who are great defensively but don’t hit enough. 3rd base is supposed to be a position for players with pop. Wasn’t really a requirement when Brooks played. He also happened to be one of the best hitting 3b of his era. He was an above average hitter for his era. Rolen was a really good player for 7 years.

 

The AAA roster is going to be overloaded with unusable relief pitchers. I thought there were going to be roster limits implemented in the minors this year.

 

He was a really good player for 7 years.

he does not have the counting stats and thats definitely part of it. He was MUCH better early in his career. He just simply doesnt have the longevity. Derek Jeter won gold gloves. Didn’t Palmeiro win a GG but played llike 80% of the season at DH. Remember Cal Ripken had 3 errors in 162 games at SS but lost the gold glove to Fernandez. The gold glove is fun but its trash sometimes. I saw Rolen play his whole career, he was a great defensive 3rd baseman.

sometimes injuries derail what may have looked like a hall of fame career. He did get in though. Just shouldn’t have.

 

First move of the Dana Brown era is in the books.

 

He wasn’t a good hitter for his time. He had an ops+ of 105. That’s 5% better than average.

 

Well thats above average. And certainly for 3rd basemen of that time it is. Like I said though, he got in because he is the best defensive 3rd baseman of all time.

 

I feel pretty confident in the Astros coaching staff at this point that they can work with these guys.

 

I think he made it solely bc he saw his much Scott rolen chatter there was in the "ASTROS off season" thread. He was like well gotta give them something to talk about

 

All they (deserved) hype around valdez and javier is overshadowing the fact that mcculers has the potential to be the best pitcher on the staff too. I think he pitched strong last year and should be even stronger this season. More worried about Garcia as the 4th starter if hunter brown can't take that spot.