Norris has shown flashes of being a good pitcher. It appears to me that he needs to work on developing his slider and working on his control. If he can get those things done and under control, then he may end up being a very serviceable 4th starter. It is a maybe at this point. He could go either way. I am not sure that a stint back at AAA is not exactly what the doctor ordered.
You're right. I'm speaking with a little too much conviction. Who knows what the future holds? Hopefully, he can do exactly what you said: improve his command and his secondary pitches. Those have always been his problems and he can't get away with his flat and inconsistently located fastballs at this level the way he did in the minors. My concern is that he simply won't be able to make enough improvement in those areas. If he makes just enough though, it seems like he could be a pretty good reliever, maybe even a closer some day.
Its official... we suck. I was hoping that little run they had against the sh!tty teams, would help the Astros get their games in order. Then we come in and get punked by a team that had lost nine in a row........ wow. By the way, MMP is starting to look like PNC Park version 2.0. I know we didn't play there this series, but I was referring to the home stand.
That may ultimately be where he has to go, but I would just caution on making decisions after 5 or 6 starts. Norris had 7 starts before he really "got it" for his last 4 for the year. On the flipside, there's an array of pitchers like Jaime Garcia and Doug Fister and CJ Wilson who sport ERA's in the 1st right now and obviously aren't *that* good. 5 or 6 starts is just not a good amount of time to evaluate anyone. If you look at even good pitchers, they will have stretches of 5 or 6 starts with an ERA of 5 or 6. It's just magnified when you start the season that way. In many cases, teams have to perform because they are contenders and so pitchers who struggle early have to be pulled. The Astros have the luxury of having a longer leash - I'm just suggesting that they should use it. If after a couple of months, he hasn't shown any progress, then definitely reevaluate - either turn him into a permanent reliever or send him to AAA to develop as a starter or whatever. But for now, let him keep going out there and just see what happens. Some players just take longer to develop. For a comparison, look at Wandy. We all were ready to dump him in his first or second year - he was getting rocked constantly, has a terrible ERA, etc. But the Astros just kept running him out there and ended up with one of the best pitchers in baseball last year. And that was even with a contending team.
Actually someone did advoacate moving him up this year. Scroll up to the top of the page. rockets934life thought he could use seasoning at the Major League Level in July so I was just pleading my case. Honestly, I just don't see us calling up a guy that we aren't 100 percent sure is ready, on a team that looks like a sinking ship. I was only using Bud as an example because of pitch counts. He's 25 anyways. Norris also looks like a guy who needs to go down if he wants to be a starter at a high level. You could even argue that Norris was rushed up.
Good points. I was basing my opinions on Norris on much more than just this season but I still agree with your overall point. I wasn't suggesting to pull the plug on him now. He will definitely get a bunch more starts before they make any kind of decision. I just don't have a lot of confidence based on what I've seen and read about him over the past 3 years or so.
I totally agree - I think our excitment over the potential of Norris last year is the result of a "best of a bunch of scrubs" phenomenon from our AAA farm system. I really doubt he has much of a future as a useful starter. Hopefully for us, he proves us both wrong!
Right on. It seems to me that in his quality starts (the one against the Cards from last season stands out off the top), he sort of gets lucky. I almost get the feeling that he just winds up and throws the ball too often, knowing that he doesn't have the ability to pick spots. I wish they tracked stats for how often a pitcher hits his desired location. To me, he needs a lot more luck than most other starters. He needs to hope that his pitches don't end up right in the sweet spot.
Johan Santana was awesome today: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/gametracker/live/MLB_20100502_NYM@PHI He only gave up 4 HRs in 3.2 innings, including a GS.
Lidge has awful return to majors: Phillies RP Brad Lidge was hit hard in his first outing of the year during a 9-1 loss to the Mets on Friday. Lidge, who came off the DL Friday after missing the first month of the season with knee and elbow problems, was greeted in the ninth inning by a solo home run from Rod Barajas that struck off the left-field pole. Frank Catalanotto then ripped a hard drive to right that was caught by Jayson Werth. Angel Pagan followed with a single to right and Lidge was quickly replaced by J.C. Romero after three batters. Sorry, The Cat... not trying to pick on Lidge. He is coming off of an injury, as usual. Yea, I know the last 2 posts aren't Astros-related. Sue me. Who wants to talk about the Astros anyway? :grin:
Just to clarify I said it was a pipe-dream to see him in the bigs in July although i'd like to see it. A few post later I said I expected him at the big league camp in ST next season and go from there. If he isn't one of gods chosen ones then AAA by the end of the season isn't unreasonable with 2012 opening day as his target. Although I will say this, when we are 40 games under .500 in September I wouldn't be opposed at all to see him get a few innings here or there. On Bud, I will say that he has struggled because he needs a third pitch and needs to locate better. The dude has a plus fastball and a nasty slider but often can't locate either one. I understand he has struggled but the dude has good stuff, give him time.
On a side note let's take a look at our former third baseman and shortstop. I'm still mad that we let TY go, he was half the reason we were in contention late in 2008. His offense is Barry Bonds like compared to Pedro Feliz. And Tejada should of been retained, he's still miles ahead offensively of Manzella even if his defense is lacking. Handing the reigns to a AAAA shortstop was a dumb move. They already knew his offense would be sub Adam Everett like. I understand we wanted to get younger and try to get more cost efficient, but I don't think keeping the above two players around would of hampered our rebuilding process....
Wiggington signed a two year contract for six million dollars after 2008. Currently we are paying Pedro Feliz 5 million for one season.... Tejada signed for 6 million this past season. He said he wanted to stay with the Astros and he surely would of taken a discount, but we wanted to go with Manzella..... Both of them would of hardly cost anything and would still be upgrades on our current roster.
Ugh... I'm not too upset about Tejada leaving even though I liked him when he was here, but I'd add Wiggington to the list of players I wish the Astros hadn't let go.
Tejada is trash and wouldn't even be considered gum on a crack. I'm sorry my suspicions of Bud Norris look correct. He's not anything special.
Letting Wiggington walk was what really sent me over the edge with my thoughts about how incompetent our management was/is. The guy was affordable and productive enough, yet we let him walk in a year that they expect us to believe they are still going to contend. It's not like he would have pushed us over the edge last season, but the principle of it is what bothers me- you don't let a good value guy walk and then come out and act like you're a contender. And then a year later we sign a less productive guy in Feliz for more money.
