Of course, the best of all worlds is to have both good offense and good defense. But, of the two, I'd have to say defense is more important. Good defensive teams can generate offense off of their defense. I don't think the opposite case is neccessarily true. I don't believe that a high scoring team is going to prevent the opposition from fast breaking or even have difficulty scoring. Typically when you have a high powered offense like the old Nuggets teams, the current Kings or the Barkley Suns, it's been very easy to run the ball back at them and teams tend to score alot of points against them. I guess it partly depends on how you define a good offensive team. The arguments presented in this thread are more appropriate for a team that shoots a high percentage than a team that scores alot of points. Shooting a high percentage would make it harder for the other team to run. But usually the high scoring teams don't shoot a good percentage. They force the tempo and get off alot more shots. In fact, they usually shoot a lower percentage because they are taking quick shots (like those bombs Jason Williams throws up from 3 feet behind the arc). As far as the Fratello Cavs, their offense was a defensive strategy. Much like a college strategy, they slowed the game down to a crawl in order to try to keep the score close and have a chance to win at the end. I guess you could say they were playing the "prevent offense". The Cavs don't really apply to the discussion, because we were talking about whether good offense could generate good defense. I don't think there's any possible way that those Cavs teams could be classified as a good offensive team. ------------------ [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited August 15, 2000).]
aelloit, I was more refering to an efficient offense helping the defense than an erratic uptempo offense. ------------------ "You've got 6 fouls, use them well" -Derrick Coleman
I don't know aelliott....a good offense does not necessarily mean it is a high scoring one. Fratello, as you said, used their offensive slowdown as a strategy. So, maybe they didn't score a lot of points, but they very well could have had a good offense, providing it worked with some degree of success. ------------------ HOOP-T ------------------
aelloit,I was more refering to an efficient offense helping the defense than an erratic uptempo offense. I guess I'm missing your point. Give me some examples of an offense that you're describing. As I said before, it's great if you shoot a high percentage, but that really isn't an offensive strategy and not something that teams really choose to do or not to do. If you're talking about the Cav-like slow down game, I agree that it keeps games close, but it's not going to help a team to be really sucessful. It simply keeps them from losing quite as many games. Bottom line is that almost all former champions have been good defensive teams. Several have been average or worse offensively and still won the title. I can't think of any team that won the title and was average or worse defensively. I don't know aelliott....a good offense does not necessarily mean it is a high scoring one. Fratello, as you said, used their offensive slowdown as a strategy. So, maybe they didn't score a lot of points, but they very well couldhave had a good offense, providing it worked with some degree of success. Again, if you're just talking about slowing down the game, it's not really going to help anybody win big. It really just keeps you from getting blown out. Those Cavs teams were the masters of the slow down, but how many games did they win? [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited August 16, 2000).]
I remember Fratello's Cavs being in the playoffs fairly frequently then. I cannot tell you numbers or anything about them winning series, and I am don't care enough to look it up... ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The Jazz They run when they can and don't make stupid mistakes. I don't like the way they play, but I concur with the underlieing principles. Makes it dificult for other teams to take advantage of their arthirithis on the other end. I didn't have any team in mind, originally. I think the rockets need to improve their efficiency on offense as much as they need to work on team defense. Turnovers are killers. ------------------ "You've got 6 fouls, use them well" -Derrick Coleman
Here's an article from the "Journal of Basketball Studies" [yeah, really, there is such a thing] on the eternal offense/defense debate. http://www.tsoft.net/~deano/articles/aa082197.htm This guy gets into statistics so deeply that I can't quite follow it but it seems to support the idea that defense is highly over-rated but offense is only slightly more important. His logic is pretty convincing yet right at the end he seems to switch back on it. If anyone could interpret this article in plain English, it would be much appreciated. ------------------
GYHAS, Good article. There are parts of it that are a little confusing, but the sentence that summed it up for me was this: ... Who Gets Recruited? ... On top of that: Who are the players that get recruited for the next level? It sure ain't the guy who sticks to his man like glue, but can't buy a wide open ten footer. It's more likely to be the guy who can break down any defense and has a breakdown about playing defense. ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
The reversal in the argument was that teams with the better offense from the regular season were more likely to win than the team with the better defense in the regular season. But, teams with playing better defense in the playoffs were more likely to win than a team playing better offense in the playoffs. ------------------ "You've got 6 fouls, use them well" -Derrick Coleman
recruiting has nothing to do with championships. Who from the championship villanova sqaud got drafted. The reason scorers get drafted and recruited more than defensive players is that scoring requires talent, where as defense can be taught. In other words, you can teach a scorer to play D but you can't teach Mutombo how to score. ------------------
The reversal in the argument was that teams with the better offense from the regular season were more likely to win than the team with the better defense in the regular season. That argument is simply untrue. Go back and look at the regular season offensive and defensive rankings that I posted earlier in this thread. All of the champions except one were top 6 defensive teams. Only two of the champions were top 6 offensive teams. Teams that play great defense during the regular season are much more likely to win a championship. All you have to do is look as past history. ------------------
We can discuss this thread for months and still not get any where. The fact is people who love the offensive part of the game will always say that offense is more important than defense. Aelliott and myself can state our case and produce numbers from here to when ever. But that does not mean that we can change anybody's mind on this subject. Hey rockbox I agree that scoring requires talent. But you have to want to play great defense. No matter how much someone teaches you, it takes a desire and a hunger to play great defense. That's why Joe Dumars was a player that I admired so much. Not only could he beat you on the offensive end, but he could shut you down on the defensive end (just ask Jordan). Hey Hoop-T now there is your complete player. ------------------ Hey Juniors Call Me Big Brother T_Man.. Full Member of CC Inc
Originally posted by rockbox: recruiting has nothing to do with championships. Who from the championship villanova sqaud got drafted. The reason scorers get drafted and recruited more than defensive players is that scoring requires talent, where as defense can be taught. In other words, you can teach a scorer to play D but you can't teach Mutombo how to score. Precisely..... I did not say recruiting is related to championships, all I was saying is that defensive players are not usually the ones to make it to the next level. ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." [This message has been edited by HOOP-T (edited August 19, 2000).]
