You just supported my argument by asking me to name a great offensive team that had a poor defensive game...I can't. Just as you cannot name the reverse Actually, the '93-'94 Rockets championship team was a below average offensive team. We won alot of games that year while only scoring 80 some points. That finals with NY was really ugly from an offensive standpoint. ------------------
T_man: Statistically speaking, the team that wins the Superbowl is usually better in offense than defense. That accounts for decades of superbowls. In basketball: do you know where we can actually find the offensive/defensive statistics of previous championship teams? ------------------ The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
Hoop-T... It would be nice to have an equally yoked team. But the question asked was about Offense being the first line of defense. The teams I have mentioned all played great team defense. It was there defense that ignited there offense. Especially with the Bulls and the Rockets. Although most of us remember Jordan as this great one on offense, we tend to forget how good he was on defense. When the Rockets won those 2 Championships it was the Defense that was the backbone. Now if the Rockets of today could learn from the Rockets in the past and play some of that team defens this would be one dangerous team. Haven.. The offense has to have the ball to score and if you looked at the Superbowl winners the last couple years. It was the defense who did the dirty work, but the offense got the glory. When New York, Dallas, Green Bay and even Denver won the Superbowl. It was there Defense who put the Offense in a position to score. It really helps when your average position starts at the opposing teams 46 yard line or your own 40 yard line. A good Defense will ignite the Offense. ------------------ Hey Juniors Call Me Big Brother T_Man.. Full Member of CC Inc
In Basketball it is important to have both a good offense and good defense to win. No team has ever won the championship with being bad at either end. The Lakers, Spurs, Rockets, and Bulls, all had big scorers and good defenses. Shaq, Duncan, Robinson, and Olajuwon were all good scorers as well as great defenders, great shot blockers, and they all clogged up the lane on the defensive end as well as being scoring threats. It takes both to be successful in the NBA, offense and defense. ------------------
How good defensevly were the early 90's Bulls? I remember them being a great offensive team, but didn't have a good interior D. ------------------ "You've got 6 fouls, use them well" -Derrick Coleman
Joe Joe, I cannot remember a good Bulls interior defense until Rodman came along. He bolstered their "D" down low. Pippen and MJ were very good all around defenders through the 90's. The key to their defensive success was team defense. MJ and Pippen knew when and how to double if needed. But with the likes of Cartwright, Wennington, Longley and Perdue down low, there was not much interior "D" to be had. ------------------ HOOP-T ------------------
Here you go Joe Joe.. Chicago's all Defensive team M. Jordan (1st team) 90-91, 91-92, 92-93 S. Pippen (2nd team) 90-91 (1st team) 91-92, 92-93 H. Grant (2nd team) 92-93 http://www.nba.com/history/index_sbys.html ------------------ Hey Juniors Call Me Big Brother T_Man.. Full Member of CC Inc
Personally, I don't trust "defensive" awards. Does anyone have some PPG game totals? T-Man: how on EARTH would it matter that NFL defenses set up their offenses? We're talking about RANKINGS... and generally, championship NFL teams have higher offensive rankings than defensive.... other teams would benefit from the same "setting up." What matters in this case is that these teams had BETTER offense than defense relative to the rest of the league. I'm not deriding defense, just rebutting the classic argument that defense is more important. ------------------ The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001. [This message has been edited by haven (edited August 14, 2000).]
I don't care about certain players defensive abilities. I want opponents FG%, opponents points, and point margin. I remember the Bulls having to completely collaspse inside to stop a great post presence. This strategy only works if you have a better offense than the other team. Btw, The Bulls seemed to make every shot to get themselves to a half court defense. ------------------ "You've got 6 fouls, use them well" -Derrick Coleman
aelliott, I also remember that Rockets team putting up huge numbers that year in both the regular season and the playoffs. Against NY, sure it was ugly. But that team was not average offensively, if my recollection serves me correctly. Can we dig up some numbers? Sure, here's the '93-94 numbers: Points scored: Houston was tied for 13th Pts Allowed: Houston was 5th Opponents FG%: Houston was 3rd. Looks to me like middle of the pack offensive numbers and great defensive numbers. ------------------
Personally, I don't trust "defensive" awards. Does anyone have some PPG game totals? Here's the numbers on the Bull's '92- '93 championship team: Points Scored: Bulls were 13th. Points Allowed: Bulls were 2nd, trailing the Knicks and just ahead of the Rockets. ------------------
Hey aelliott.. Thanks for the numbers.. ------------------ Hey Juniors Call Me Big Brother T_Man.. Full Member of CC Inc
I'm looking at stats from a '95-'96 NBA Guide so I've only got numbers prior to '96, but here's what I found out about past NBA Champions: '88-'89 Det. Offense: 16th Def: 2nd '89-'90 Det. Offense: 19th Def: 1st '90-'91 Chi. Offense: 7th Def: 4th '91-'92 Chi. Offense: 5th Def: 3rd '92-'93 Chi. Offense: 13th Def: 2nd '93-'94 Hou. Offense: 13th Def: 5th '94-'95 Hou. Offense: 7th Def: 13th '99-'00 LAL Offense: 6th Def: 6th Here's a couple of things to note: -All of the champions, except for the '95 Rockets, were ranked in the top 6 in defense. - All of the champions except for the '95 Rockets & Lakers ranked higher on defense than they did on offense (Lakers tied). - None of the champions except for the '91-92 Bulls, were in the top 5 offensively. I don't have stats for the last 3 Bulls championship teams or the Spurs, but I'm pretty sure that those teams were all top 5 defensive teams. Looks to me as if you want to win a championship, then you better be able to play some serious defense. ------------------
good post aelliott. Remember the 95 rockets sucked ass until the playoffs. Their defense was much better in the playoffs if I remember right. Defense leads to easy transition baskets. Offense wins games but defense wins championships. Look at pheonix over the years, they have always been offense oriented and how many playoff series have they won. Lots of shooters, but none had rings. ------------------
Thanks for the numbers aelliott.....were those playoff stats, regular season, or the entire year? The reason I ask is because in the playoffs, traditionally, the scoring goes down and the defensive efforts go up due to several factors. It is more of a mental grind when you begin getting down to the latter stages of the playoffs. ------------------ HOOP-T ------------------ [This message has been edited by HOOP-T (edited August 15, 2000).]
My opinion is still that O and D are equally important. But I will say this: Ultimately, in the playoffs, the defensive grind kicks in stronger. The regular season is typically when you see the high scoring and showboating more. At any rate....a good thread with some good points by all! Bravo! ------------------ HOOP-T ------------------
NBA rules have changed, hence the game will change. Stop fretting. Rudy will bring us another Championship. ------------------
aelliot, thx for the numbers. Do you think defense and offense are intertwined? I wouldn't consider the Cav slow pace offense in the mid ninties good defense. ------------------ "You've got 6 fouls, use them well" -Derrick Coleman
