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Obama's Celebrity/Vanity Compared to Britney and Paris

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by El_Conquistador, Jul 30, 2008.

  1. TECH

    TECH Member

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    I'm not hearing much about what Obama's actual plans are, regarding energy. The hope and change mantra is going to have to expanded on sooner or later.

    I'm not much interested in this ad warfare. I want to see the two debate each other, and answer the same hard questions in real time, right next to each other.

    The democratic debates were a contest on Bush bashing, not much real issue talk, and no real tough, issue questions. Put the Dem and Repub together, and get on with it.
     
  2. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    I never said Obama had to be perfect, but I am going to hold him to a higher standard...because I am voting for him and I am not voting for McCain. McCain is further from that standard.

    But Obama told us he was going to live up to this standard - so I am only measuring him by his words. Now at times he's struggled, and at times he's done a good job.

    McCain has failed miserably to live to his standards - I am very disappointed.


    I don't know where you are going with the race thing, but I think you're being presumptious.
     
  3. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    They were expanded on a long time ago. It's tired to keep raising the "hope and change mantra" when the details of his plans have been available for months. You can't expect to learn the nitty gritty details of a candidate's plans via commercials, speeches or the evening news. If you want to know more about Obama on energy, there's plenty to read. Just go here:

    http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/

    If you want to know more about McCain on energy, go here:

    http://www.johnmccain.com//Informing/Issues/17671aa4-2fe8-4008-859f-0ef1468e96f4.htm
     
  4. Two Sandwiches

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    McCain better study up, and hope that old rusty mind of his will actually remeber something....otherwise, the debates will be laughable.
     
  5. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    Fair enough. I am too.

    It just seems nit-picky to say he's being arrogant when he calmly responds to an impossible situation.

    There is so damn much to hit McCain on and Obama's barely laying a paw on him. Instead, he's talking about what he believes in himself. That's the standard he promised. That's the new politics. Focusing on what you stand for and refusing to lie about your opponent. Has he let you down on that?

    McCain doesn't want you to think about any of that. He wants you to think "he's not like us." "You can't trust him." He doesn't want you to think about Obama's positions or what he'd do as president. He wants you to think, "This guy's a dick."

    And, whether you're supporting Obama or not, you fall for it.

    Case in point is your "average Joe" post. I responded to it but maybe you missed that.
     
  6. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Maybe I am being nit-picky and McCain's attacks of Obama being arrogant make you magnify small things - but there is some basis.

    Obama has run a pretty darn clean campaign so far. I'm happy with that. I am disappointed though that he weakened the FISA bill - at first I didn't think it was a big deal, but it kinda sucked he switched positions.

    I did miss your previous post. I didn't mean from a class perspective. I meant more of a rural suburban Joe who is white. I mean, it's a lot easier for a white man to connect to another white man than for a black man to connect to a white man. It's just a reality McCain can exploit. I'm not passing judgement, only speaking from a strategic point of view on what would be more effective for McCain. Hillary Clinton found this strategy too late, and it's puzzling why McCain hasn't adopted it and instead come out with this very bizarre offensive which I think is so outrageous no one will buy it.
     
  7. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    They don't just make you magnify small things -- they distract you from the actual things that matter. That is exactly what the McCain campaign wants to do. Kudos to them. It's working to some small extent.

    If Obama wanted to respond in kind, he could use code to talk about McCain's temper and whether he has the temperament to be president. You know, like Bush's ops did in 2000. You know, the same ops that are running McCain's strategy now. He could also use code to talk about McCain's "family values," which led him to start dating that hot young rich first lady in waiting while his wife was recovering from her injuries. He could run ads in code that alluded to Cindy's pill addiction and how she lied and stole to obtain those pills. He could talk about how McCain has flip flopped (not gone centrist to achieve far less than hoped, as Obama did with FISA) but literally did a 180 on "the agents of intolerance" (McCain's words before he started hugging them), tax cuts for the rich, immigration, etc. And if I was like George, I could start all caps alarmist threads about each of these things. Actually, if I was like George, I'd start threads too about how McCain was gay or not black enough or other assorted lies and distracting BS.

    But the thing is, Obama doesn't throw unfair, dishonest punches. He doesn't even hardly throw honest punches. He talks about his plans and his vision for the future instead.

    McCain doesn't want you to think about that. He knows he has zero chance to win on the merits, on an honest assessment of his plans vs. his opponent's. So, instead, he wants to convince you to just not like the other guy.

    It's a shame. He wasn't always like that. But the fact is that McCain v.2008 "would rather win an election" than deliver "straight talk."

    Don't let him do that.

    We're voting for a president. We should do it on the merits.
     
  8. drumbum

    drumbum Member

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    Let's think about this logically, and empirically.


    Bush > McCain (2000 Republican Primaries)
    A Bag of Chips > Bush (The past eight years)

    SO

    A Bag of Chips >> McCain
     
  9. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    And McCain2000 >>>>>>>>> McCain2008.
     
  10. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    I saw this add a few weeks ago on Hardball before it was rolled out. As much as it was laughed at then, I can't believe they went through with it
     
  11. Pistol Pete

    Pistol Pete Member
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    Yeah....Obama's a great debater... :rolleyes: That's why he runs from debates.
     
  12. Pistol Pete

    Pistol Pete Member
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    An empty campaign, blinded groupie fans and very little experience don't merit Obama becoming president.
     
  13. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Great, great quote right here, folks:
    “Do the American people want to elect the world’s biggest celebrity or do they want to elect an American hero?” - Steve Schmidt

    Folks, this world's biggest celebrity ad continues to make headlines and send shockwaves through the political community. Could this be the equivalent of a tide-changing ad, such as the Daisy ad or the Willie Horton ad? Again I marvel at the psychological brilliance of this ad -- and that's coming from a pro, folks. Just great, cutting edge stuff. Does it surprise me that the libs in this thread don't understand that level of brilliance? No, not in the least. This isn't the superficial cotton candy that the Obamabots eat up -- no, this has deep meaning that only a critical thinker would grasp.

    Politico chimes in:

    GOP's celeb-Obama message gains traction
    By CARRIE BUDOFF BROWN | 7/31/08 4:33 AM EST



    Barack Obama’s critics laid down the foundations of the strategy months ago: The Republican National Committee started the “Audacity Watch” back in April, and Karl Rove later fueled the attack by describing the first-term Illinois senator as “coolly arrogant.”

    It wasn’t until the last week, however, that the narrative of Obama as a president-in-waiting – and perhaps getting impatient in that waiting - began reverberating beyond the e-mail inboxes of Washington operatives and journalists.

    Perhaps one of the clearest indications emerged Tuesday from the world of late-night comedy, when David Letterman offered his “Top Ten Signs Barack Obama is Overconfident.” The examples included Obama proposing to change the name of Oklahoma to “Oklobama,” and measuring his head for Mount Rushmore.

    “When Letterman is doing ‘Top Ten’ lists about something, it has officially entered the public consciousness,” said Dan Schnur, a political analyst with the University of Southern California and the communications director in John McCain’s 2000 campaign. “And it usually stays there for a long, long time.”

    Following a nine-day, eight-country tour that carried the ambition and stagecraft of a presidential state visit, Obama has found himself in an unusual position: the butt of jokes.

    Jon Stewart teased that the presumptive Democratic nominee traveled to Israel to visit his birthplace at Bethlehem’s Manger Square. New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd amplified the McCain campaign’s private nickname for Obama (“The One”).

    And the snickers about Obama’s perceived smugness may have a very real political impact as McCain launched its most forceful effort yet to define him negatively. It released a TV ad Wednesday describing Obama as the “biggest celebrity in the world,” comparable to Paris Hilton and Britney Spears, stars who are famous for attitude rather than accomplishments.

    The harsher treatment from comedians and columnists – coupled with the shift by McCain from attacking on policy to character issues – underscores the fine line that Obama is walking between confident and cocky. Once at pains to present himself as presidential, Obama now faces criticism for doing it too well.

    “I was puzzled by this notion that somehow what we were doing was in any way different from what Senator McCain or a lot of presidential candidates have done in the past,” Obama said Sunday, speaking about his trip at a conference of minority journalists. “Now, I admit we did it really well. But that shouldn't be a strike against me.”

    Obama and his supporters dismissed the line of attack as the latest desperate missive from a foundering Republican campaign.

    Bloggers at the Huffington Post launched a backlash to the backlash against Obama’s overseas trip, arguing in part that he wouldn’t face such criticism of acting premature if he were white. Separately, the Obama campaign pushed back hard at journalists who used a report, which detailed Obama’s move to assemble a transition team, to describe him as presumptuous by pointing to an interview in which McCain had owned up to the same thing.



    Page 2

    Some Democratic operatives described the narrative as a Beltway creation, the pastime of journalists looking to keep the presidential race competitive.

    "Self-absorbed press speculation,” concluded consultant Bob Shrum, the chief strategist during John Kerry’s 2004 presidential campaign. “Most Americans are not paying the slightest bit of attention to this.”

    Mark Mellman, a pollster for Kerry, said Obama acted the same when he was struggling last year against Clinton.

    “The only people who are making him seem inevitable are the commentariat,” Mellman said. “He seemed this confident and self possessed when he was down 30 points to Hillary Clinton. He is a confident and self possessed person.”

    Republicans have long tried to turn his assuredness into a shortcoming. National party operatives began sending e-mails to reporters in the spring detailing some of Obama’s bolder moves, including using a faux presidential seal at a policy roundtable. The RNC rolled the headlines onto one site, “Barack Obama Audacity Watch,” that it unveiled Wednesday.

    The McCain campaign piled on with its “Celeb” ad, which juxtaposed Obama’s speech to 200,000 people in Berlin with photos of Spears and Hilton.

    “Do the American people want to elect the world’s biggest celebrity or do they want to elect an American hero?” asked Steve Schmidt, one of McCain’s top aides, on a conference call.

    They stayed personal later in the day when responding to Obama’s suggestion at a Missouri town hall meeting that Republicans would use his unusual name and his race to paint him as a risky choice.

    “This is a typically superfluous response from Barack Obama. Like most celebrities, he reacts to fair criticism with a mix of fussiness and hysteria,” McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds said.

    By later Wednesday, the Obama campaign responded within hours to the “Celeb” ad with one of its own, accusing McCain of taking the “low road” and “practicing the politics of the past.”

    Responding to questions from reporters about McCain's ad, Obama said: “I do notice that he doesn’t seem to have anything to say very positive about himself.”

    The strategy has very real potential dangers for Team McCain. Obama’s unmistakable charisma and his campaign’s deft brand of stagecraft have created an often lopsided contrast with McCain’s sometimes painful-to-watch public events. As presidents as diverse as Ronald Reagan and John Kennedy showed, Americans do like a touch of celebrity in their commander in chief; though not too much.

    Obama’s steely sense of self-confidence, even destiny, is also one of the traits his supporters like most and which could, as the fall campaign heats up, be one of the qualities that help him make the sale.

    But the slippery slope for Obama is allowing a McCain campaign that is searching for a consistent theme with which to attack him to latch on to a way of making him seem alien to ordinary Americans. Douglas Schoen, a Democratic pollster, argued that Obama was not yet in a danger zone, but he needed to pay heed to the gathering storm.

    “My sense is that all of those attacks individually are frankly not particularly potent, but taken together, they are creating a narrative about Obama that is not helpful,” said Schoen, who worked on President Bill Clinton's 1996 reelection campaign. “It is a warning sign for Obama that he’s got to get back on the trail and make the case that there is a real contrast.”


    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/12205_Page2.html


    TRACTION
     
  14. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Member

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    Thanks for putting it that way BJ. I mean really, what the hell does his celebrity status have to do with anything? How is it significant in how he can run the country? His policies? His vision? I just don't see how it matters at all.
     
  15. JunkyardDwg

    JunkyardDwg Member

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    That's a terrible quote.

    If that's the only qualification you have to judge in electing the next president then this country really is f***ed. John McCain's status as hero and POW no more makes him fit to be President than the popularity Obama has enjoyed.

    So sick of the same old tired bulls**t tactics being used here. Obama's no saint either, but at least he tries to stay above the fray.
     
  16. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    Did you get these from another soldier's email?
     
  17. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    John McCain's legislative experience, commitment to his country, service to his country, judgment and his bi-partisan track record make him fit to lead. Obama has none of those attributes. All he has is his celebrity status. He's just in over his head and can't be trusted.
     
  18. Pistol Pete

    Pistol Pete Member
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    Did you get this attempt at a witty reply from your toilet bowl?

    Obama did run from Hillary after she spanked him and he's running from town hall debates with McCain. That's what happens when you run on an empty campaign.
     
    #38 Pistol Pete, Jul 31, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2008
  19. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    :confused: That does not make sense.

    Obviously.
     
  20. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    we all know obama and hillary need at least twenty more debates, the first twenty weren't good enough
     

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