The_Conquistador is moving to Zug, Switzerland. This is really getting scary here in the US. Populist sentiment has never been higher and it's feeding right into Obama's liberal hands. We are at a financial crossroads in this country, and we have an inexperienced, socialist fraud leading us. I repeat, this is scary. After the stimulus package flops and all that is created is inflation, commodities will skyrocket as the dollar plummets, and we'll have both a recession AND high energy prices. Low energy prices have helped cushion the economic fall. If that ends, look out below. 53% of America is just plain stupid. As we watch Obama flounder around, jumping from manufactured crisis to crisis with no apparent sense of direction, it's becoming plainfully obvious to even the most biased witness that he is totally unqualified to lead. He is in over his head. A figurehead good at reading off a teleprompter, but a convictionless coward who has no accomplishments in his life.
If the government had to give my company money and my employees and me got a chance to save the company and turn it around......I would be happy to just take the salary. To me this is not about a solvent company being pushed around, this is about a company that is running on MY MONEY....and as a share holder, I am happy that my government is looking out for my interests.... DD
Why does the thread title call it "Obama's" plan? He didn't propose this, he hasn't even fully endorsed it yet.
Once the company collapsed those bonuses should be LONG gone....that is why I am in favor of letting companies collapse.... But since they got TAX money to cover their arse, they should not get a nickel of bonus money.... If they want to leave and get another job...go... DD
This is a stupid move, there are plenty of people working in AIG's good divisions that do not deserve to get their compensation contract ripped up, especially when they did not do anything wrong. This will only weaken the companies received tarp money, make they less competitive. And it will negatively impact TALF, when you want to encourage private investors to step in and purchase the bad assets with government help. Are those people going to want to participate when there is the real possibility of 90% taxation? Things are getting ridiculous.
Well, if you have decided to save the company from collapse, then you need to run it like a real company, i.e. honor the contracts for the people that do their job. Don't change the rules in the middle.
This is STUPID....you don't run it the same way that got you into the situation, you lean up, and run it right. And that means bonuses go....until the company is solvent and can stand on it's own. DD
I'm sure they'll be able to find a lot of people willing to bring back AIG knowing that their bonus, if they are successful, is going to be taxed at 90%. This hurts the taxpayer in a way too you know... Aren't ex post facto laws unconstitutional anyway?
LOL, run it right? Dude you have no freaking clue on how to run a company, does run it right include getting rid of your best performing people? Do you know there are plenty of people in AIG has nothing to do with the CDS mess? Not honoring existing contracts for good employees aren't going help making them solvent. We already decided to bail them out, this is counterproductive.
Really? Considering I have run 3 so far (sold them all), and retired at the age of 41...I think I might understand a little bit about it.... Look, do I feel for the people...yes...but I felt for the quality people that got screwed at ENRON too...bottom line, the company went belly up, they lost their bonuses RIGHT there... They are lucky to be drawing a paycheck, and if they want to get a better job, let em go.... There are tons of good people ready to step in......at least that is what I found, when I ran companies...what about you? When a company is bankrupt there are no bonuses......they should get their bonuses back once the company is back to solvency and the creditor (The US Government) is paid back in full. DD
Tons of good people aren't gonna step in for a 90% tax rate. You still don't get it, its not about letting these people go, its about making the company successful again, so the 130 billion and counting (AIG alone) we committed doesn't go down the toilet. Not honoring contacts is a surefire way to get rid of your best people and NOT attract others good candidates.
I don't mind the intent of the bill, but I'm sure crafty accounting and contract dealing will shift that bonus income into excluded b o n u s income. Bailing out of the US at the first hint of trouble eh?
except they didn't. if the original bailout said no bonuses (or 90% taxation), then cool, everybody knows the rules. but it doesn't seem that it did. they basically said "here's some money, keep on chugging." and then 6 months later they said "man, you know this populist sentiment against you is making us look bad, so uhh employees we're gonna need the money you were paid back, but uhh thanks for working for free. bye!" i don't know if any of the people getting the bonuses are sympathetic people just doing their job who didn't have much to do with it or are multi-millionaires completely responsible for the collapse, but either way they seem to be changing the rules in the middle of the game, which just shouldn't happen. either be smart enough to put it in the original bailout or own up to your mistakes. don't punish others because you're stupid.
It is a tax rate on bonuses....of a subset of people that are some of the highest paid in the company. If they want to go work in the private sector where they can earn whatever they negotiate...let em. But AIG is insolvent.....they are spending MY money....and until it is paid back they should not be paying bonuses that would not have been paid had AIG filed for chapter 11. This is about not paying bonuses that would not be paid because the company IS BANKRUPT... Do you understand? The company went under.....the government stepped in and bought up 80% equity to save it from going completely belly up. The buyout was done so fast they did not have time to properly renegotiate all the contracts (which is why I prefer chapter 11)....... So, this is the next best step...these people did not earn their bonuses, you know why? Because the company went under..... I would be willing to bet that most of the people are not surprised, and if they choose to leave and get another job...fine....they are now working for the US government until AIG pays them back. Sorry....life sucks sometimes. DD
See, I don't think that.....I think the government moved so fast and congress had no time to get the proper provisions into the plan. And by the way, there was no way AIG could have whiped out those bonuses anyway......if it was still kept as an entity.......without going into chapter 11. To me, this is a sensible step..... DD
Once again, you're missing the big picture. Nevermind the fact that Dodd slid in the the last minute provision. Let me put it in perspective. If you invite me over to your house and I maliciously destroy one of your 1500 TV's and I refuse to pay you back, do you have the right to simply come over my house and confiscate the equal value from me? In principle, yes, you do. Legally no, you don't. In principle, yes, the gov should be allowed to take their bonuses. Legally, no they do not. There are reasons for laws in this country. Justification is no grounds to stand above the law. Anyone can justify any twisted reasoning. Lets only hope one day they dont find justification to come after your money.
The government owns AIG.....it is your money, my money, and everyone else's money.......until that company is solvent....no bonuses.... They are passing the laws now....to tax the bonuses.....at a 90% rate...as long as the government is the major shareholder I have no issue with that. The employees know what is what...they know they got their jobs saved for them by the USA.......I have little sympathy for them....AIG was bankrupt.
Except it DID NOT go under, we choose to NOT let it go under, we are now the biggest share holder of the company. But its still a company, which needs to be run like a real company at least to protect the investment we have made in it. Not to mention the fact changing the rules in the middle will further complicate what's already a big cluster ****, TALF as it stands might as well be dead.
