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Obama wins

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Another Brother, Jan 3, 2008.

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  1. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Member

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    That was coming from a Democratic BLACK Governer of Massachusetts who was a "first ever" himself. Hyperbole was almost to be expected. Thats almost like a guy from Austria running for president and asking Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger to give his endorsement.

    Though I do agree there's a bit of unwarranted hype given to Obama.
     
  2. FranchiseBlade

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    What you say makes sense, but I think that this kind of endorsement isn't aimed at a person who follows politics, it's meant to excite people and bring out new voters, and get them energized enough to actually follow through with their interest in Obama. Dean had young people interested, but in the end they didn't actually go out and vote for him in any large way.

    So far Obama has turned excitement about him into action, and I think his ideas on how to carry out business are new, and not really seen before.

    Candidates have always been about listing their issues, and making promises, and then people end up paying various amounts of attention to that. A lot of people just vote for who they want to have a beer with, or "seems" presidential or whatever. What trashed Dukakis in '88 wasn't his stance on issues, but a Willie Horton ad, and a picture of him in a tank looking silly. Before the Horton ad he was up by 17 points.

    Obama's whole idea of a campaign is about not focusing on the different stances of issues, but on the common ground shared by various groups. As he says that area is really larger than the differences, and even his opponents have testified that his style does get things done in govt. That can be a rare thing.

    So while it is certainly hyperbole, there is some truth in that, that what he's doing is very different from the politics that we've seen. That is the premise of his campaign.
     
  3. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I see Obama as a very appealing message vote. There is a lot of public disgust for Congress and Bush. People can only take fear mongering, whether it's 9/11 or global warming, and polarized politics for so long. I think the "once in a generation" hype makes him sound like a revolutionary, but his election has the potential be a revolutionary event. It would be a mandate to mend fences and move beyond Vietnam. And for him to win, it would also mean gen X'ers and Y'ers finally vote as a strong demographic.

    We've seen the failed potential of a presidency backed behind a united nation before in the months after 9/11 and right when our marines arrived in the Persian Gulf, so I don't blindly think Obama's our savior or anything like that. Obama represents a movement that can be greater than him, the awakening of new ideas in an increasingly diverse America. One outside of the Cold War and the domino theory. One that faces immense challenges upon our global identity and dominance.

    One man can only do so much. I think people need a leader to look forward again, and that's something Hillary can't provide. Not because she's a woman, but because she's too old guard. If Obama can get people out to vote for him, who knows what else he can get out of them?
     
    #143 Invisible Fan, Jan 7, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2008
  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Can you guys who say there is some unwarranted hype behind Obama provide some examples. Watching the talking heads up until the night of the Iowa caucus most people wouldn't make a prediction on who was going to win. I have not seen an article about how he would be the president eva, or revolutionize the presidency or whatever.
     
  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    That's true that people often pay more attention to image than to issues. Consider that there are people who could support either Obama or Huckabee when they are very far apart on the issues based on the image of change. For better or worse image is now a very important part of the Presidency and that image is often much more important than issues.

    I don't think what Obama is doing is new its only that he does it very well. GW Bush didn't play up issues that much in the 2000 election and Bill Clinton while he did focus on the economy his campaign was primarily based on a new politics also and changing the dynamic of what was going on in Washington.
     
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I just heard on the radio that the latest NH polls have Obama with a 13 pt lead over Clinton.
     
  7. leroy

    leroy Member
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    It's 10% in the latest Zogby poll...

    With 1 day until the primary in NH, this has to be crushing news to Hillary. I'm sure the actual outcome will be closer, but I think Obama is going to win again and make life next to impossible for Hillary to catch up.

    On the repub side, I don't think anything will be cleared up by tomorrow. If Mittens loses again by a wide margin, it will do some serious damage. I think McCain will win and Huckabee will be a close 3rd behind Mittens.
     
  8. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    You don't see any hype in the article that Major quoted?
     
  9. Major

    Major Member

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    I actually think the end margin might be bigger than the polls, as happened in Iowa. If that happens, Hillary goes into meltdown mode. With 2+ weeks between this and South Carolina, I think she has plenty of time to go negative - and hard. We'll see. Alternatively, she could just ignore South Carolina and focus on New York, California, etc. All she needs to do is stay competitive everywhere and win a few of the monster states on Super Tuesday and she'll still be in good shape delegate-wise. She's not going to be truly "in trouble" until after Super Tuesday, I don't think. The one exception might be if Edwards drops out and endorses Obama - then Obama has 50+% of the vote everywhere, which makes it easy. But as long as its a 3-way race, and Obama/Edwards keep splitting the anti-Clinton vote, she can just float along under the radar, unforunately.
     
  10. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I don't know why you say "unfortunately," Major. I'd much rather have a tough primary campaign that tests the candidates and enables us to learn more about them. The worst thing to happen, in my opinion, would be a waltz for anyone. The media gets tired of the "phony dance," knowing there is no real race, and the coverage of the Democratic Party and their candidates drops a lot. A good race is good for the party and good for the country, IMO.



    Impeach Bush.
     
  11. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    that's just a blog. I'm sure that you can find anything like that for any candidate. I want to know how the general media, the cnns, msnbcs, foxnews, have over hyped Obama because I don't see it. Most people predicted hillary would be the candidate even as let as last week or at least were undecided.

    considering what he pulled in off in iowa, the hype following the victory was very much deserved. as far your greatest president ever hype concerns, I just don't see it.
     
  12. Major

    Major Member

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    I agree - so far. But (and this is just my opinion, of course) Hillary and the "Clinton-machine" is a disturbing, slimy aspect to this to me. I wouldn't mind Hillary staying in the race if it stayed above the board (as she has thus far) - but I expect that as Hillary gets more desperate, she will get uglier and slimier, and that's the part I don't really care for. I'd love a race between Obama/Edwards, for example (or even Richardson) to continue. But Hillary and her sense of entitlement to the nomination concerns me.
     
  13. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Lets see if her campaign goes "Willie Horton" on Obama, and then I'll agree with you. But even if she did, and I don't think she will, it would be a good test for Obama, because what he'll see in the general will make all the primary stuff seem like roses and candy. Obama needs to be able to respond effectively to the worst kinds of campaign tactics, because everything in the book will be thrown at him. If McCain gets the GOP nod, maybe not, but otherwise, look out!



    Impeach Bush!
     
  14. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Agreed. Hillary's sense of entitlement to the nomination is just another thing that bugs me about her. But she could help toughen up the Obama campaign by inflicting some body blow along the way. I just don't want her to win.

    Hillary and Romney have become the Yankees and Red Sox to me. Two of my top three goals every baseball season is for both teams to be eliminated.
     
  15. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    Actually it was a newspaper editorial in a major American newspaper. And it was a comment made by a prominent national governor. It is a little bit more than some random idiot's blog.

    But you think he is already a once in a generation politician, capable of redefining American politics? He's already a much better president than Bill Clinton? He is already the equal of JFK?
     
  16. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    I don't believe, personally, there's any way to know that.

    I do believe people are desperately hoping for that. And they see something in him that makes them believe it's possible.
     
  17. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    and what do you expect a fellow democrat to say in an endorsement?
     
  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    if people believe what he has done as a candidate will extrapolate into an actual presidency, that may be overboard. But he proved in Iowa alone that he can reach across and grab support from different types of people with different values.
     
  19. leroy

    leroy Member
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    I kind of hope she does stay in it. I'd love to see a good convention battle. When was the last one? 1972?

    That said, if Edwards does drop out, it looks very much like he will endorse Obama, probably in an attempt to become the VP candidate again. I'd personally prefer Richardson as his VP (foreign policy experience, hispanic votes). If Obama gets the support of Edwards and Richardson before Hillary drops out, it will be over. Feb. 5th is going to be a fun day for those of us that are political amateurs.
     
  20. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Let's hope so...

    [​IMG]
     

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