I think you're right. Very difficult stuff. I'm not proposing to you that there's another -ism that is necessarily a perfect or even a better answer in the confines of trying to follow Jesus. But this marriage of free market economics and the Church is a very strange one.
this pains me beyond belief. i'm not kidding. i know this thread isn't about this...but i have to say, i know people who are such close friends who've never grasped this...and who equate the cross with the flag and all it stands for. and then so many people never get to hear what jesus was actually preaching, because the church is preaching something altogether different. it makes my stomach drop, truly. very very sad to me. this stuff has really knocked me upside the head over the last few years or so, in particular. and i don't know what it means for me practically. better topic over a beer than over a message board....but i'm consumed by it.
Although we come from totally opposite viewpoints in many ways on this topic and on it's solution, madmax... this pains me too. Such a waste... I'll buy the first round.
You would do all the talking, but I would love to listen. Maybe I should start by re-reading some scripture.
I don't think there has to be a contradiction between Christianity and free market economics or capitalism, as long as your'e not talking about "pure" capitalism. You can make a good arguement that the incentives to produce in capitalism and efficiencies of distributing goods in a free market produce a great good for the people in general. The problems crop up when the negative tendencies of capitalism and human nature are not accounted for. The tendency to place profit over human welfare (produce dangerous goods etc.) and the tendency to concentrate wealth. These problems can be sensibly addressed through regulation, tax policy etc. The wingnuts ride over the cliff in insisting that any deviation from pure capitalism/free markets is "socialism". Though even here they can never be even close to consistent.
I'll let eric speak for me. <embed src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:southparkstudios.com:150739:" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="window" width="480" height="360" allowFullscreen="true" scriptAccess="always"></embed>
seriously how much money do you really need Trader_Jorge? why are so many Americans afraid to pay taxes... or take care of their own... If you don't think another American deserves to have a life saving operation... because he/she could afford to pay for it... then why worry about pulling out of the war in Iraq... where for one... is costing you 12 billion dollars a month... just leave... and if it emboldens...the Terrorist to attack... as long as its NOT YOU getting killed... why should you care... to each his own right???... you can even profit in the markets by shorting the DOW... when there is a terrorist attack... heck.. you could cover and even go long within hours...after the drop... make more money that way...
All we need now is for rhester to provide the ex-mexican-drug-dealer-turned-jesus-freak viewpoint and we're set for one hell of a dialogue.
i can absolutely get rhester there!!! i bought him lunch yesterday!!! (of course, he bought the 2x before that!!)
no (stop) we must all think alike (stop) no soup for you (stop) (i'm certain your differing viewpoint has to do with texas tech football.)
"womens is trouble, beer is good" transfers readily across many a religious philosophy, fatty. For the record - I nominate max to set this up. It was his idea.
How do you help people every day? 1) Take care of their health care needs? 2) Formally educate or train them? 3) Keep them safe from crime? 4) Keep their environment healthful? Please explain how your efforts could supplant the governments. Giving ice a day or two earlier than FEMA. ARE YOU JOKING? Prove that "Sweden has much more money than us per capita". Quit making facts up to support your biases. Here's a link from a quick goodle to some 2003 data. US with per capita income of $37,500 and Sweden $26,620. http://www.success-and-culture.net/articles/percapitaincome.shtml
There are a lot of Americans who feel quite a bit like you guys. In a way that is what the election is about. The folks who preach the gospel of selfishness ala Jorge have probably crested. Don't forget it is the organized working class in Sweden and Germany that keeps the soulless corporate elite from completely stripping most folks of their benefits. As you can see with the McCain-Palin folks the corporation elite and other wealthy individuals do it under the guise of protecting "small" business and individuals who aren't part of the elite.
