1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Obama Wants to Destroy Manned Spaceflight?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MR. MEOWGI, Nov 27, 2007.

  1. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,783
    Likes Received:
    3,704

    I didn't know the moon was in the United States
     
  2. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Messages:
    14,382
    Likes Received:
    13
    Not really terraforming, it is a step in moon colonization and then colonization of Mars and space "The Final Frontier".
     
  3. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    19,193
    Likes Received:
    15,351
    CO<sub>2</sub> lasers - the lasers that they still use today to cut through metal - were invented in 1964 so they were already built.
     
  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,783
    Likes Received:
    3,704
    so they could shoot that laser to the moon?
     
  5. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,825
    Likes Received:
    41,299
    Because the technology doesn't exist? Sorry but I'm quite sure it does these days. That was 50 years ago you know - defense needs and philosophies have changed quite substantially.
     
  6. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    19,193
    Likes Received:
    15,351
    I guess you didn't see the links I included? The things in the link are things that can't be done by remote control payoff. Thus spending $500,000,000 with a actual payoff of $0 is a bigger money sink than spending $10,000,000,000 and getting a payoff of $50,000,000,000 in mineral wealth and energy production.
     
  7. IROC it

    IROC it Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 1999
    Messages:
    12,629
    Likes Received:
    89
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,825
    Likes Received:
    41,299
    How much mineral wealth and energy did we extract from our first foray on the moon?

    Anyway - how do you discover if there is mineral wealth and energy to extract in the first place - by sending a robot or a guy?
     
  9. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    19,193
    Likes Received:
    15,351
    I would hope you could figure this out for yourself, but they don't have to wait for the people to arrive at the moon before they actually use the laser, in order to prevent them from going to the moon.
     
  10. Qball

    Qball Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2001
    Messages:
    4,151
    Likes Received:
    210
    Well rocket technology can't really make any more groundbreaking discoveries. It's pretty much as efficient as it can get.

    Here's the problem. Research was being done for Nuclear Propulsion (i.e. controlled atomic bomb in a can) in order to allow pratically unlimited supply of fuel for mere pounds of reactive isotopes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Prometheus). At the moment, we have 30k lbs of fuel to move about 45k lbs of payload. Due to protests from environmentalists, they pulled the plug on the project. So with the current propulsion system, you really can't travel in space without a huge investment in time.

    Since you have such a strong opinion against space exploration, let me spare you the textbook answer of why going to the moon is benificial. Here's something most people might not know....there is an abundance of Helium-3 on the moon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium_3). Helium-3 is the forefront of new energy producing technology for the long-term future. I don't think it is a coincidence that Bush stated the mandate to go back to the moon right before/during the start of the oil price crisis. Let me ask you this, why are the Chinese trying to get to the moon? The Chinese govt is the most economic driven govt in the world. There is no way in hell the Chinese would go to the moon unless there was a profit involved. And I'm not talkin about 'cash in the bank' profits. There is a larger stake at hand.

    And for all the budget freaks out there, NASA is just a scape goat. NASA's budget is about 0.7% (less than a penny per dollar) of the federal budget. Don't be fooled about NASA eating up funds. It's relatively cheap in my opinion. Everyone knows well where the bulk of the dollars are going.

    Obama definately lost my vote. Cutting NASA's budget is not the answer. You want to save some money? Reduce military spending to a reasonable level.
     
  11. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,783
    Likes Received:
    3,704
    what are you trying to prove, that you know about space flight more than me. congratulations, I was just responding to the point about shooting the russians off the moon with a laser. you win, geesh.
     
  12. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    19,193
    Likes Received:
    15,351
    We already know it exists. It is not on the moon, but the moonbase is the stepping off point that enables you get it.
     
  13. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,783
    Likes Received:
    3,704

    not to mention the excess supply would in theory drive the price down, further making it difficult to make up the cost
     
  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,825
    Likes Received:
    41,299
    I would hope people would figure this out for themselves before they deveote time and money towards builidng a laser to shoot chinese astronauts off the moon or for sending spacemen up to shoot chinese astronauts off the moon.
     
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,825
    Likes Received:
    41,299
    If you're going to get into the economics of it, you're talking about spending trillions of dollars to extract millions of dollars worth of iron, silicon, etc (as far as I know, we're not running out of a lot of that stuff, which is recyclable anyway). Not an argument you're going to win anytime soon. Maybe in a few hundred years.
     
  16. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2001
    Messages:
    16,148
    Likes Received:
    2,817
    The whole premise is flawed. There is no shortage of people qualified to be astronauts, the money would go to try to improve the worst in the education system, not the best. Obama isn't trying to improve astrophysics departments at top universities, he is trying to improve education at the very lowest levels for the students having the most trouble. Kids that can't read under the current education system are not the pool that NASA draws from, they are the pool McDonalds draws from.
     
  17. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    19,193
    Likes Received:
    15,351
    Again, at some point these are transformational technologies. We generate electricity in space - we can shut down coal plants and affect global warming. How much is that worth?

    We mine enough platinum metals to make hydrogen fuel cells practical, how much is that worth?

    For technologies that have gone before - how exactly do you evaluate the benifits to mankind of NASA weather satelites which make weather prediction a reality? What is that actually worth? Same thing about communications satelites.

    Remove reliable intercontinental communications and reliable weather prediction, including huirricane prediction. How do you even quantify a dollar amount effect that these things provide?

    The prudent thing for Marco Polo to do would have been to stay in Italy and invest in a local business with no risk. If Isabella had used her money to educate the poor, Spain would have been better off in the short run. Do you really think that those two were poor ideas?
     
  18. MadMax

    MadMax Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    76,683
    Likes Received:
    25,924
    Remember folks: the Mayans say it won't matter anyway. Tick...tick...tick...tick.
     
  19. MadMax

    MadMax Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    76,683
    Likes Received:
    25,924
    This is really not a strong selling point for your otherwise good argument, right now. :D
     
  20. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    19,193
    Likes Received:
    15,351

    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

    There is a greater weight in nickel metal asteroids floating around than comprises the entire mass of the planet Earth. One asteroid = several hundereds of years of current production on Earth. Cut prices by a factor of 100 and you still have many trillions of dollars waiting. All that is needed is some long term planning, something that corporations loathe.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now