Do you know how many construction workers or waiters quit within 5 years? A number of professions have high turnover rates. Part of the reason teachers have a high turnover rate is because quite of few people do it as an in between job, until they can find a job in the first chosen profession. As far as getting a job for higher pay and less hours.... good luck with finding a job that lets you work 9 months a year, for $45,000+, and you only need a bachlors degree... Many of the jobs that pay better either require a post graduate degree or a greater number of hours than a teacher gives.
This is the money quote in the article for me. Having graduated from high school 3 years ago, I'm still all too familiar with the ridiculous 7:30-8:00ish start time and 2:30-3:00ish end time. Asking students, especially those kids these days that have ADD/ADHD/whatever other psychiatric label saying that they can't pay attention in class, to stay focused and energized (let alone actually learn) in these conditions is unreasonable IMO. If these kids in Asia can kick America's butt in math and science while going to fewer hours of class, we might try learning something from their different model. A longer school year that involved shorter school days would allow students to be more involved during the school day since they don't have to worry about being burned out all day or just slightly less prone to be solely concerned with getting to the last bell in the afternoon. Plus, a longer school year with reduced hours might help prevent students from being overloaded with homework, as some schools are prone to let happen, and then have to sacrifice sleep to finish all of it given that many high school students have to work in addition to school, which is a job in itself. Oh, and speaking of sleep, who really expects kids to learn at 8 in the morning? Just make it a 9 o'clock start time, since that's the standard work day start anyway, and make school a month longer. And please, don't give me the "I want to drop my kids off at school and if they don't they'll have to take the nasty bus" excuse. Save the environment and let the kids carpool (or buspool as it were). This type of stagnation where we're still on the agrarian calendar and we still think that kids between the ages of 6 and 18 are actually able to pay attention in class for 8 hours starting at or before 8 AM just goes to show the utter lack of creativity that's present in the education system today.
just stating my sister's impression coming from a challenging private middle school to a in her words "terrible" high school
Schools seem more molded around the ADULT'S SCHEDULE than anything else. The summer vacations started because of Planting and Harvesting I do beleive now Longer Days try to coincide a bit to the work day [they them use to it YOUNG!] It is not working as well now because we now have 2 income homes No MOM there waiting for them . . . . So They may wanna extend the day so that mom or dad can drop them off before work and pick them up after work Oh . . .. learning? I think that has become secondary We may need a fundamental shift/break down of how we teach how often is this revisited? What exactly are we TESTING? Memorization seems more important than THINKING Rocket River
Explain 'Terrible' BTW - Comparisons between Private Schools and Public Schools is inherently unfair. Rocket River
Like I said, she took an entire year of French without learning a single word, yet received a 98% in the class. She had no homework for the entire school year in most classes. Her teachers would often times just show movies during class time, etc. There is probably more, I'll have to ask her about it. And my comparison was between a private MIDDLE SCHOOL to a public HIGH SCHOOL. I realize a private school is going to be quite different, but there is no reason a public school cannot have daily lesson plans, homework, and actual teaching going on.
As a teacher myself, I agree with this... I love my job, but by the end of the day I am cooked and by the time Summer vacation comes around I'm ready for a break. Teaching takes a LOT out of you. If you've never taught then you really can't understand that. Yeah we get a lot of holidays, but we need them. If the school day were ever extended and the amount of vacation were shortened, I'd probably go insane. And if that were to ever happen, then I'd imagine teachers' salaries would have to increase proportionally to the amount of extra days and hours spent in the classroom. I can see the argument that kids, specifically in poverty-stricken areas, need to be in a safe environment. But while extending the school day might help those students, would it not be unfair to others? Why not, instead of extending the length of school, you push for a greater emphasis on after-school programs. That way the kids that truly need that extra instructional time and need a safe haven can get it but, you're not forcing it on other students, students who have a safe place to go after school, and who don't need the extra hours. And I think what needs to be emphasized in that article is the fact that students in the US already receive more instructional hours than other countries. So how is adding more hours going to improve the quality of education and retention rates for students? I think they are looking at this from the wrong angle. Students and teachers spend so much time focused on standardized testing these days...but the "higher ups" don't seem to recognize it or simply refuse to recognize that as the problem in education. Until you put less focus on these tests, and place more emphasis on learning in real world situations, you're gonna continue to have problems. And I can see argument for year round schools with more breaks throughout the year...I can possibly see a benefit in higher retention rates with a shorter summer vacation. But again, are you truly addressing the real problem here? Is the real problem the amount of hours and days spent in school, or is the real problem the lack of resources some districts have, the lack of modernized classrooms that utilize current technologies, the lack of qualified teachers and again, the lack of real, authentic learning.
Good lord. With all due respect, you simply don't know what you are talking about. Most teachers work their asses off. They work many, many hours outside of class that they don't get paid for, preparing lesson plans, grading papers, and a host of other things. They are underpaid. I repeat... they are underpaid. One of the main complaints teachers have is having to teach to mandated tests, like the TAKS. They aren't nearly as free to teach their subject matter as some might believe. In fact, that's a big reason why so many eventually quit. Endless bureaucracy and a frequently dumbed down curriculum designed to insure good mandated test scores, not the knowledge the teachers went to school for years to learn so they could impart it to their students. Honestly, you sound like a disgruntled high school kid. I'm sure that's not your intention, but it's certainly my impression. Again, with all due respect.
I think teachers are underpaid just because of what they do. It's arguably the most important profession outside of medicine. With that being said, I agree that you can't find many jobs where you make what they make and get so much time off....at least to start off. They don't get as much going forward but they do have a lot of job stability. I know tons of folks who have switched to teaching as they got laid off from their main profession. Get certified and it's on....
Statistics show kids in year round schooling outperform the american alternative. I am totally for this.
careful, i got jumped on for suggesting something like this in another thread: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=4723804&postcount=9
Nice way to put people who like summer vacations into the right-wing "kook" category. A whole lot of Democrats like having long summer vacations too. You can give your kids assignments to do during the summer. Doing that doesn't make you a religious, home-schooling right-wing kook.
Does more days of school mean more homework? They simply need to make sure kids are being taught things and get homework in the currently set amount of school hours.
What is the expectation of a High School French class? Fluency? Conversational? I took French in high school. [I am taking the NOT LEARNED A SINGLE WORD thing as hyperbole - cause she had to at least memorize it] Let's start with what I consider the REASONs Public Schools are at a disadvantage 1. Private schools don't have anyone there that does not want to be there or whose parents are not cursory involved. If any, it is an extreme minority. Public schools MUST take all comers. Whether they simply waiting to become 16 to drop out, criminals or they are functionally illiiterate or their parents don't give a d*mn or they come from broken homes. They turn away NO ONE. Whereas Private schools can turn away a kid if he has had more than 3 B's in his life. When you have a school of Pre-Motivated Students, Attentive Parents, LIFE AS A TEACH IS MUCH MUCH BETTER. 2. Resources. Private schools on average have more MONEY PER STUDENT than public. They may also can afford more teachers so they get to have a lower ratio. EASIER TO TEACH 15 to 1 than 30 to 1. 3. Regulations - Public schools have so many rules and regulations and limitations and hamstringing going on it is ridiculous. Place those same restrictions on private schools and see how it helps. EASIER TO HAVE DISCIPLINE IN A SCHOOL WHERE YOU CAN *PUNISH* A STUDENT THAN IN ONE YOU CANNOT!. Easier to Teach when you have more LeeWay as far as What you teach and how you teach it. So . . . this whole Public is better. . it is only for those hand pick chosen few and those with the $$$$ to pay for it all. Let the local school admin 'Govern' those schools too. . . . . and see how they fair. THAT BEING SAID THe resolution to the issue is . . .Unbind the Teachers. Discipline has to be readded to the schools. Get more teachers. I don't mind year round school. but I prefer more Efficient schools Rocket River
I had year-round school in first and second grade and I enjoyed it much better than the current system. The way ours worked was that there were four "tracks", which allowed the parents to select which months the students got vacation and which months they went to school. You'd go for 3 months, then you were off one month, then repeat. I liked it better because the school year didn't feel so long and you'd get vacations often instead of all at once in the summer and the short winter break.
Expectations I would think would include basic conversational skills, greeting, some verbs, a little conjugation. It actually was not hyperbole, she LITERALLY could not complete a french sentence. She knew hello, goodbye, but those are words anyone would know without taking the class. She came out of the class learning nothing that she did not know going into it. She transferred schools and was not able to move into French 2. She LITERALLY watched movies EVERY day rather than a lesson. She also said most of the movies were in Spanish because the teacher told the students it was "close enough." And this teacher had a doctorate in French. Obviously not all classes are like this, but this should not be the case in any class. completely agree, especially the bolded part.
This is not true at all. Private schools cost about 1/3 less per student as public schools. I agree with the rest of your reasoning.
It's not that much more days. It's removing the "convenience" of summer vacation because it's been shown that kids forget a lot of what they learned when their brains aren't picking up that slack.
