Obama, the disgusting pig.

rhester, I totally disagree with you on this subject, but I respect you for the way you address it. We can disagree on issues and still be civil and still be friends. That happens all the time in "real life," at least for me. I think there is a middle ground here that most Americans would be comfortable with. Compromise, that beautiful word, needs to be used more often, especially here. Far too often, compromise goes out the window when this subject comes up. America, in many ways, is a construct built on compromise. Perhaps people should ponder that a bit. It might make for a more civil country.

 

I don't feel guilty about someone else's choice, that is just stupid.

I have enough things to feel guilty about myself...I don't need to pile on the guilt of others....

DD

 

On a more serious note, my plan does not solve all abortion issues.

It only gives the expecting mother an option other than abortion.

For any reason that the mother does not wish to keep the baby, whether they are not ready, they don't have money, or any other reason.

Abortion is their only option right now.

Nope. That would be a different plan.

The adoptive parents can still back out, I guess. But..., there are very generous people in the US. Many families are more than willing to adopt and raise a special needs child. I have seen them.

This is the time to walk the walk.

The mother is free to do or go where ever she wishes. My plan is only for the mothers that does not wish to keep the baby, but want an alternative to abortion.

 

Thank God Ling Ling doesn't have a real choice in the matter...

The only PLAN that matters is the woman and her body.

DD

 

I'm sorry, but this makes absolutely no sense.

 

I appreciate the attempt. But to be clear, using your definition neither you nor I nor any other adult has a soul, as we already are human beings. ("That which gives you no alternative but to expect a human being to develop out of") Also, using your definition, fetuses don't have a soul, but are a soul. That can make for some interesting "Mad Lib" style readings of the Bible.

Your definition is designed retroactively to fit your beliefs on this subject. It doesn't really hold water outside of some very specific circumstances, and it doesn't conform with any traditional definitions.

 

I agree, we don't solve problems well while yelling and fighting.

I am probably more sensitive than most people on this issue because I am involved with hands on and I have a deep love for moms and babies, even those who are in the womb.

I really don't have any beef with the pro choice movement, I have thought alot about how it developed into such a popular movement.

Things change.

I don't have a solution that will work except where I live. That is were I am involved with young mothers and hurt mothers.

I need to correct something, this year I helped one 14 year old go through her pregnancy. She is so grateful her step mother suggested she talk to me. She doesn't go to our church but my wife and I spent alot of time with her, it was a joy to see her and her son the day he was born.

Just one less abortion, one more little boy born. It was very beautiful for me.

I earlier said there were 2 this year, I got mixed up on one from the end of last year.

 

I guess it's just too straight-forward for you because it's not complicated at all. The "thing" growing in a woman's body is a human child every time. It is never anything else. Who can say for sure exactly at what moment it becomes human except to say that it always was...

 

Rhester, I know you don't mean it like this, but it could read that you have a better understanding than other people, which is just not true.

You just have a viewpoint skewed by your own experiences and religious beliefs.

So does everyone else.

DD

 

It does help to hold it at arm's length and dub it a "choice" when it is an innocent life snuffed out by "choice."

 

Yes, just as it is to force your views on those same women, at arms length.

DD

 

The point at which it becomes a viable life is disputable, most pregnancies do not even make it to term.....

If a woman makes the choice to abort, it is her decision.

The government, nor anyone else has a say in the matter. PERIOD !

Everyone wants to force their views on the women, they are not offering to pay for the upbringing of the child....oh, no....just force your views on them, and once the child is born that is her problem.

Mock indignation to make themselves feel better....

DD

 

I'm not sure why you struggle with this idea. I would assume that a soul is created at conception regardless of whether or not that being can feel pain or twiddle her thumbs yet.

The ones of you who are trying to ascertain at what point during gestation that sufficient humanity is attained are the ones trying to retroactively fit their beliefs which are being used to construct laws which have a life/death effect on someone else.

 

You have proof of a soul's existance?

Really?

DD

 

Actually I'm more motivated to protect the little girl's life than to control someone else's decisions but I will if I have to; it's the same way we reign in most crime... by limiting choices that have a deleterious effect on others.

 

Nice try, but that is not close to apples to apples....this is a religous issue, and the majority of the people think it should be the choice of the young woman and if she decides, the people around her.

It is her body, her decision, there is nothing anyone can say unless they are willing to take that baby and pay for it and raise it themselves, otherwise they are just making faux arguments to try to appease their own guilty conscience about the matter.

Now that doesn't mean that a choice is automatically an abortion, but I favor a choice for all women......having a baby is a major responsibility, if they are not ready, or they have a reason for not doing it.....more power to them.

To me, it is not my business, and I get tired of pushy people putting their views off on others, when they have no intention to help other than just to put their views out there.

DD

 

Society offers people and places that are ready to facilitate just that so that the chilid need not die by choice.

Why do you offer no voice on behalf of the child?

 

No I don't mean it that way (that I have a better understanding), I mean that my view is very skewed by my experiences.

I have a better understanding of why I believe what I believe because of those experiences.

My religious beliefs haven't actually defined by views as much as the process of love, much thought and experience.

I never had to find a bible verse that backs up where I am at on this.

My earlier post in reply to you only meant that your opinions may have been shaped different than mine and if you only were trying to state that you believed in a woman's right to choice as a position that is different than why I believe aborting an unborn child is wrong.