Agree, disgusting title. I didn't even read the first few pages, I caught the post by finalsbound and it hurt a little that her parents seemed to be reacting to her... she seems like a really genuine christian who wants to show Christ's love to others. I actually posted based upon how some parents feel strongly but communicate poorly... I should watch what I post on abortion issues because I feel soooo very strongly on this, this is the big one for me. I hope I didn't hurt finalsbound by my post.
Here's what I wrote: "That which gives you no alternative but to expect a human being to develop out of what you may think is a mass of quivering cells. Can't say that about skin cells or toenails or boogers..." Not sure how you got out of that that adults don't have souls. Your discussion seems disingenuous beginning with asking me to define a soul "unequivocally" and then dis-regarding the smileys that accompany my "definitiion." Finally you get some wrong-headed idea that I'm saying that adults don't have souls "from my own words."
So you would be O.K. with a woman choosing to have an abortion 1 week before they baby is due? Or did you mean to say when the baby is viable outside the woman's body?
Undecided? Why did you cut twhy off in discussion because you couldn't agree? Lives are hanging in the balance and you are undecided and move ahead promoting that "tenuous" position.
Plug "adult human being" into the equation above. If you already are a human being, can you then develop into a human being? If you don't like the definition you've used, come up with a better one. Like I said, I don't mind arguments about souls, but you need to demonstrate exactly what it is and how I can determine that it actually is there, if you expect me to use the presence of a soul as proof that abortion of fetuses is wrong.
Well, I read about 20% of this thread and all I can say is: **** the religious right. See ya'll after the 4th.
I can see how my quick response could be misconstrued but you are just being obtuse deliberately. That's how you have fun. I've said numerous times that a human being with a soul is created at conception. You want a scientific answer that cannot be had (thus the smiley). It's more about an attitude borne of love so it is an issue of faith. BTW, your playing with my words does not indicate that human adults don't have souls. It faultily implies that children-in-utero don't... which is not something I meant to imply. However you are just in such a rush to contradict me that you got your own message wrong... hilarious. All of you pro-Choicers, go to any playground and tell your tales of abortion freedom to the children assembled there. Make sure to look into their eyes as you tell the story. All of the children who are now gone due to abortion rights would have had the same innocent, loving eyes.
Can I tell them about miscarriages and birth control, as well? Sure, I'll tell them every time my significant other and I have sex that we may have prevented a child from coming into the world.
To be honest I'm Pro Life and Pro Choice: Pro'Life because I dont believe people should get abortions just because it was an accident or they are not ready. Its time to grow up become an adult and handle responsibilities. But I'm Pro Choice because no one should tell a woman besides the father having input and say so as to what a person should do with their bodies. Now of course killing a live body within you I believe law should dictate that. So if a person is recently pregnant I believe they should have up to a certain amount of time to do so. If they abort they're child afterward without any medical clearance then that should be murder. Its between GOD and that person the punishment they will recieve but the gov't should not aid abortions nor prevent them (based on term of pregnancies) I guess I'm a donkey with an elephant's trunk. PS. I dont believe in legalizing gay rights and marriage.
Why does it not surprise me that you have completely missed the point? It's not really about their response, it's about yours...
Well, I had to sit in my Catholic church and listen to a movement who believe that all forms of birth control are against God's will, that we are preventing children from coming into the world who have a legitimate chance to be born. And my response did not miss the point- I already know what my response would be- just as absurd as the people I referenced above would be me speaking to kids on a playground about abortion. Hypotheticals are stupid in this instance because I would never do it, would never think about doing it, so what's the point? I used to be a teacher, and if I had to teach this subject, I would have to present both sides. I can clearly see how the pro-life movement views this as an unborn baby,and I can also see how the pro-choice movement views this as a fetus that is not the same as a human being. It is a 50-50 opinion not just in the U.S., but around the world, and statistics from at least 25+ years of surveys back this up. Therefore, when in doubt, it is up to the one who has to give birth.
"Plug "adult human being" into the equation above. If you already are a human being, can you then develop into a human being?" Having a soul is intrinsic to being a human being. You wrote "if you are already a human being, can you then develop into a human being? I posit the soul at conception. I wasn't talking about brain wave activity or any other such measure.
I know. A soul is a quivering lump of cells which will necessarily develop into a human being. An adult human being, which admittedly could be described as a quivering lump of cells, is already a human being and will therefore not devlop into a human being. You define soul. Adult human beings are outside that definition. Therefore an adult human being doesn't have a soul. I'm not working from what you might or might not have intended. I'm only working from the words you typed. Logically, in that instance, an adult human being has no soul. If you then extend it and make the dubious claim that fetuses are human beings, then nobody has a soul.
The point is to really confront the ugliness and immensity of allowing such a choice of convenience. It was never intended to have someone do it but rather to come to understand why they wouldn't, couldn't, do it. I did have this kind of conversation with my own kids-- now 22 and 24 when they were about 9 and 11. They came home from school talking about abortion because it was announced that Domino's Pizza was no longer to be allowed to deliver pizza to their private school because of Tom Monaghan's pro-Life position. They brought up the word abortion. I asked them what it meant and they had no good idea so we talked about it openly-- focusing on the life at stake and not the choice in the air.
