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Obama tells Israel: Go back to 1967 borders

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Ubiquitin, May 19, 2011.

  1. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    So God wants other nations to support Israel's unjust and oppressive policies? God wants other nations to support Israel's institutional prejudice? God would rather have that than someone working toward peace?

    I honestly don't think you've really read the bible.

    On the other hand, then you approve of Obama's message because he said this about Israel and the Palestinians

    But seriously please go back and reread the bible about who Jesus said God was, and the kind of God and actions Jesus talked about. It isn't the kind of God that punishes people for eternity based on mistakes or a mistake they made in their few years on earth, and it isn't the kind of God that wants nations to support others when that nation acts out immorally.
     
  2. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    If the jews and the muslims roles were reversed and the muslims controlled Israel would they act any different than the current way jews and muslims are acting?
     
  3. Cannonball

    Cannonball Member

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    Do you go to my church?

    The pastor at "my" church believes that the tornadoes in Alabama and the flooding of the Mississippi were Gods punishment of America for Obama being "anti-Israel".
     
    #123 Cannonball, May 21, 2011
    Last edited: May 21, 2011
  4. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Interesting take by a liberal Jew on why Obama gave his speech and its effectiveness.
    ********
    He delivered the speech in an effort to get the jump on Netanyahu, who is in town to address Congress and AIPAC. Bibi's goal is to mobilize his followers against any U.S. efforts to promote an Israeli-Palestinian agreement. Netanyahu, who grew up in the United States, is a de facto Republican and, as in 1998 when President Clinton was in office, he wants to strengthen the GOP vis-a-vis the Democrats.

    Delivering the speech was probably a mistake. But Obama felt that he had to deliver it.

    For obvious national security reasons, the United States cannot afford to have a new generation of Arab democrats in nations as significant as Egypt hating us because they view America as being in Israel's pocket. Obama thought a strong rhetorical endorsement of peace would help neutralize Netanyahu's demagoguery and defuse opposition to both America and Israel in the Muslim world. Meanwhile, he thought some strong pro-Israel language would please Netanyahu's followers.

    In the end, it didn't turn out that way. As the Wall Street Journal reported in an article called "Jewish Donors Warn Obama on Israel," a tiny (but incredibly well-heeled) group of donors told Obama in advance that any deviation from the line laid down by Netanyahu would cost Obama in campaign contributions. The article quotes a bunch of fat cats, unknown to most Jewish Americans, who are essentially threatening Obama.

    http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=0e7994932b5c293ad6e9e40d8&id=86ec991ffd&e=f7942c7b70
     
  5. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  6. Raven

    Raven Member

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    Religion should not influence foreign policy, especially in regards to Israel. Just another reason why keeping evangelist out of Washington is critical to the future of America and the entire world.
     
  7. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Member

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    You have got to be kidding me. Let Israel fight for their lives or risk getting burned down to the ground. No other country in the world would be able to get away with what they've been doing without significant consequences. I think it's time to let the Israel and the Middle East in general to fend for themselves. Muslims hate us, why should we help them?
     
  8. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Obama again shows what a complete amateur he is. Bibi schooled him and made him look like a novice.

    not surprising that Obama would side with the Arab/Muslim world in this one
     
  9. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    ...made a gutsy call.
     
  10. babyicedog

    babyicedog Member

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    You see, the true colors of the right come out on an issue like this. They say they're Americans, but only when it suits them. That they would side with the leader of a foreign country over their own illustrates their position as "Selective Americans." I have no doubt in my mind that if we were at war with Israel and they served in our Armed Forces, they would rather sell secrets to the Israeli government than fight for our country in order to further denigrate our Commander-in-Chief. And these are some of the same people who spoke out against criticizing Bush during the Iraqi conflict. Hypocrites, the whole lot of them. I'm proud to be an American, and while I may disagree with my President on issues, I certainly support him and our country over other world leaders. The zealotry with which BigTexx worship Bibi over their own President shows just where their loyalties would lie- Selective Americans.

    The extremists on the right relish anything negative regarding Obama (even though this is hardly an issue). I have no doubt whatsoever that those are who so gung-ho about Bibi supposedly "schooling" Obama would no doubt sell out our own President based on their misguided hatred (notice, for those who failed reading comprehension, I said "hatred"- there is a big difference between disagreeing with our President on issues and using every situation, no matter how farfetched, to confirm their hatred). I support my President, I support my Congress (yes, my Republican-controlled Congress), my Armed Forces, my educational and cultural institutions, and my American society as a whole, while cherishing my right to disagree and work within the system for change. I can be convinced to change my mind and NOT support my President on certain issues (I don't support President Obama's continued military action in Libya without Congressional support- that is against the law). Can any of you right-wing crazies do the same- that is, support Obama on any issue? Seriously doubt it- because your goal is not to be objective, your goal is to be Selective. Thus, Selective Americans, based on the things I mentioned above. And I have no doubt you would fight on Israel's side against your own country if it meant the overthrow of your President.
     
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  11. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Netenyahu is not even worthy of shining the shoes of President Obama.
     
  12. showtang043

    showtang043 Member

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    He said this to Abraham? You do realize Muslims believe in him, moses, jesus, the whole deal as well? So believers/followers in Abraham is pretty broad
     
  13. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    neg rep for your garbage, intellectually lazy post.

    It's not being a "selective American" to think the president got schooled by Bibi. We don't have to agree with Obama all the time, you know.
     
  14. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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    <iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oN3K1Wsd-I0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  15. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Ironically, this is almost 5 years old and the narrative is almost verbatim.
     
  16. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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    what narrative?
     
  17. Summer Song Giver

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    I wish my politicians were as lucid and straight talking as he is.
     
  18. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    That they will defend themselves from terrorists.

    Here is a more recent interview he did with youtube where he talks about a lot of the same topics:
    <iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/v5t6A9wSMWo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  19. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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    Why do you characterize a timeless principle as a narrative?
     
  20. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    There's nothing really new happening here, unfortunately. Obama at least is not being ambiguous about what "peace" means and is sticking to pre-67 borders as a demand...pretty much in line with every other Western leader and the pro-peace camp in Israel.

    Bibi is sticking to ancient talking points. "Indefensible borders" meant something when the West Bank was occupied by Jordan and Gaza was occupied by Egypt and both places were used to attack Israel. Not so much now.

    "The situation on the ground" means that a lot of Jews live in the West Bank now, but they are there because they were actively encouraged to for over 40 years by the government.

    Bibi doesn't really have any new cards to play but he can still count on the militant right in both the US and Israel to green light another generation of occupation. It's embarrassing to me, because I was very much a believer in the whole hasbara narrative, but these are not only manipulations of reality, they are very OLD lies.

    Rhetoric like Netanyahu's doesn't just ignore Rabin and Oslo, it ignores the efforts of the international community (especially the US under Clinton, Bush and Obama) in building infrastructure in the PA, the efforts at state-building and reconciliation by Abbas who is hardly the militant Arafat was, and the promises of full recognition and support by the region from the Saudi peace initiative.

    At the end of the day, he is a politician, and fear sells. He'll keep playing that "Lets Pretend it's still 1967" card until his career is over, which is why he'll be gone in the next election. The rest of the world is moving on.
     
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