Let's just make sure that we're being crystal clear about the role of the Law and the importance of a personal relationship with God. The Law was not established so that people would obey it. It was established so that people would know that they can't hold to it, and so that their pride and sense of self-reliance would be broken and they would turn to God for help, like a child turns to his father. Romans 3 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=3&version=31 God's purpose is to establish a connection with us, individually, personally, and to draw us into deeper relationship with him. This is not a detached, intellectual, exercise. It's not merely a detached act of compliance. It is a deep, spiritual, emotional, journey into the depths of your soul. It's very personal, heavy, stuff. (Also note that it's not anti-intellectual. It is all inclusive. I'll stop here because this could be a whole other topic.) Also note, however, that some denominations, whether intentionally or unintentionally, have drifted away from the Biblical teachings and have placed a renewed emphasis on the Law in some very incorrect and very damaging ways. By doing this they have enhanced their own power over their members though the use of guilt, shame, judgmentalism, and related issues, and they've enhanced their own wealth this way too, but by doing this they have diverted attention away from God and the true message of the Bible. There are some very good churches out there too, btw, but there are no perfect ones, just like there are no perfect people. Don't be mislead or put off by the corruptions in various Christian churches, therefore, and don't be mislead by the imperfections in individual Christians either. If you're really drawn to understand this concept of a personal relationship with God, then it is a deep personal journey and experience that you will have to have for yourself. Once you do, however, you will find that there are a lot of other people who have had very similar experiences and very similar new understandings about who they are and what their lives are really about. When these people get together and share their experiences and learn from each other and support each other, then that is a church, a good church. I do know that many people have had some very bad experiences with Churches to the point where they wonder if any good churches exist, but they do. You just need to ask around a bit. Back more directly to the topic, here's another chapter that lays it out very clearly: Galatians 3 Faith or Observance of the Law 1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard? 6Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."[a] 7Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."[b 9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. 10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."[c] 11Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."[d] 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."[e] 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."[f] 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit... http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=55&chapter=3&version=31 The rest of this chapter is also on this subject and is well worth reading too.
That is exactly what I was asking I wasn't sure if you felt I was being patronizing by reducing the Bible down to the question of deathbed confessions. Let me assure that I'm not about to reduce the Bible down to anything especially to experts like yourself, Rhester and Grizzled. I find the issue faith versus acts an interesting question in regards to religion and Christianity seems to be the major religion that has wrestled with this issue more than other religions. For example a religiously conservative Jewish friend of mine once told me that you could still be a Jew even if you didn't believe in God as long as you followed the laws. In what could be consider original Buddhism there is no such schism between acts vs faith as it is all acts. Salvation or the attainment of spiritual fulfillment, for a Buddhist has very little belief especially someone from the Theravadan and Zen traditions. It comepletely is dependent upon following the Dharma. Whether you believe in any deity is unimportant and in many cases is considered even a hinderance.
You are a Christian based on your faith not your works. That is fundamental Christianity and not debatable. Or at least not in the sense that you could be right disagreeing. On my original point of Christian fundamental that Jesus is God here are bible verses from John's letter to strongly support that claim... 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also]. 1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
This is true...and yet on the other hand, if your life doesn't look different...if you aren't following...then you've murmured some worthless words that aren't based in anything real. I think sometimes the Church reduces faith down to saying some magic words. Come up for our altar call and repeat after me. I think this reduces down Christianity big time.
In my limited experience and frame of reference this hits the nail on the head, it is the biggest problem I've encountered. faith that is dead
Religion is stupid, bible is uselss, god is less meaningful than monkey. The whole religious crap is for r****ds
I agree wholeheartedly. I think this relates to 1 Corinthians 13 as well. If a church is not acting out of love then its message becomes largely empty and meaningless. And even worse, it also fools many people into thinking that that is what Christianity is about.
“I speak as a Christian - one whose commitment to democracy is very deep but whose Christian convictions are even deeper. Democracy is not my faith. And American democracy is not my idol. To see the Gospel of Jesus Christ bastardized by imperial Christians and pulverized by Constantinian believers and then exploited by nihilistic elites of the American empire makes my blood boil. To be a Christian - a follower of Jesus Christ - is to love wisdom, love justice, and love freedom… If Christians do not exemplify this love and freedom, then we side with the nihilists of the Roman empire who put Jesus to a humiliating death. Instead of receiving his love in freedom as a life-enhancing gift of grace, we end up believing in the idols of the empire that nailed him to the cross… To be a Christian is to live dangerously, honestly, freely - to step in the name of love as if you may land on nothing, yet to keep stepping because the something that sustains you no empire can give you and no empire can take away. This is the kind of vision and courage required to enable the renewal of prophetic, democratic Christian identity in the age of the American empire.” From Democracy Matters by Cornel West (171-172)
Of course faith without works is no different than what Satan beleived. Satan certainly believes in God and is annoyed by him. The point is works without faith does not make you a Christian. Look at the words of James chapter 2 Verses 14-26 are about the relationship between faith and works. 14 - What use is it if someone says he has faith but no works? 15 - If you see someone in need 16 - and you don't give him what he needs, but say, ‘Go in peace, be warmed.' What use is that? 17 - therefore faith with no works is dead 18 - therefore, someone says "I will show you my faith by my works." 19 - you believe in God? Good. The demons do too. 20 - faith without works is useless. 21 - Abraham was justified by works when he offered Isaac 22 - faith was working with his works. 23 - Scripture says, "And Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness" 24 - you see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone. 25 - Rahab, was justified by work 26 - faith without works is dead It goes without saying Faith without works is no faith at all. If you truly believe Jesus as your savior then you will want to follow his will. The Bible, Mark chapter 12 verses 28-31 One of the teachers of the law questioned Jesus, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" "The most important one," Jesus answered, "is this: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbour as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these." Faith and works go hand in hand. Without faith your works are strictly for your blessings on earth. We have seen many who do good and get the reward of that good here on earth. Guiliani was praised for his hard work at ground Zero. General Honore for his hard works after katrina in New Orleans. Great deeds indeed but they recieved their glory here on earth. Or at least it appears. On the contrary Albert Schweitzer and Mother Theresa shied away from popular praise and only reached out to the media in ways that would those they were helping. Albert Schweitzer while very popular in the US only visited the States and that was to raise funds for a leprosy clinic at Lambarene, Africa. Albert Schweitzer lived his faith through his works... "As a young man, my main ambition was to be a good minister... I decided I would make my life my argument I would advocate the things I believed in terms of the life I lived and what I did. Instead of vocalizing my belief in the existence of God within each of us. I would attempt to have my life and work say what I believed." - Albert Schweitzer
