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Obama Tacitly Admits He Was Involved in Fast & Furious

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by thumbs, Jun 20, 2012.

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Page 14 of 17
  1. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    after the fallout they probably talked about how to handle the Mexican govt
     
    #261 vlaurelio, Jun 22, 2012
  2. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    Granted, discussions of how to deal with the Mexican government fall under the realm of executive privilege. However, privilege cannot be inclusive of everything occurring in federal agencies. Congressional oversight can and does rule everything beneath the White House. This is where Obama is stretching the power of executive privilege, and it makes him look as if he is involved, which may well be the case.
     
    #262 thumbs, Jun 22, 2012
  3. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    you really think Obama is this dumb?
     
    #263 vlaurelio, Jun 22, 2012
  4. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    Yes. He is that arrogant.
     
    #264 thumbs, Jun 22, 2012
  5. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    Either Obama does it or Holder spills the beans. Obama has no choice.
     
    #265 tallanvor, Jun 22, 2012
  6. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    how is he arrogant?
     
    #266 vlaurelio, Jun 22, 2012
  7. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Aqxl9qiFonc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
    #267 tallanvor, Jun 22, 2012
  8. HorryForThree

    HorryForThree Member

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    Election-year gimmicks: Why ask why?

     
    #268 HorryForThree, Jun 22, 2012
  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    It sounds like your intention is to make Obama look bad then and not the principle of transparency.
     
    #269 rocketsjudoka, Jun 23, 2012
  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    That is good to know.

    Holder though as AG while not directly responsible does hold overall responsibility over the actions of the DOJ. If things like this are happening in Holder's department I would say something very wrong is going on there.

    Actually lying to Congress when sworn in to testify is a crime.

    I agree that the Republicans are looking to score partisan points and that they are manipulating the process to build up the scandal that said though I don't think this means this a completely manufactured scandal. I think there is something important that does need to come out about what exactly Holder knew and what sort of accountability is he taking from this incident. The White House exerting executive privilege over these documents doesn't help the situation.
     
    #270 rocketsjudoka, Jun 23, 2012
  11. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    'This is Watergate with 300+ bodies'

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UFIpoL3jrfo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    CBSNews

    This is all some sort of political stunt by the Republicans.......:rolleyes:
     
    #271 tallanvor, Jun 23, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2012
  12. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    gunwalking didn't exist during bush?
     
    #272 vlaurelio, Jun 23, 2012
  13. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    I see, so anytime someone claims executive privileged that means they are guilty?

    So you agree Bush committed 6 crimes then?
     
    #273 Sweet Lou 4 2, Jun 23, 2012
  14. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    He lied to the media, which I do not think is a crime but is shameful.

    I agree that it's important we knew what Holder's involvement was. But I doubt that is exactly what Republicans are after here. Still, if they really want to pursue, they can get around executive privileged.

    If congress feels it has a real case, they can go to court which can overrule the Executive Privilege. That's unlikely as it can backfire bigtime on Republicans to raise the stakes that high. Or Congress and Obama can negotiate the release of documents which is often what happens and what was happening until this political joke of a vote came up.

    But if this is so important, then Republicans can go to court. Right now, they have no done so which should say a lot.
     
    #274 Sweet Lou 4 2, Jun 23, 2012
  15. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    I never implied using executive privilege is a crime. It is restricted to presidential (White House) communications. It does not and cannot be extended to any other bureacracy unless they are communicating directly with the President and his staff.

    If that is the case, then, de facto, the President was directly involved in Fast and Furious, which means he is interfering with a Congressional investigation of two homicides (Terry and Zapata). No one made that connection until Obama butted into the fray with executive privilege, something Holder months earlier said was not necessary.

    As vlaurelio said earlier, a discussion about how to deal with the government of Mexico regarding F&F is privileged, and I agreed. That is not a crime.

    What IMO is a crime is invoking executive privilege to cloak a misguided program to keep it from embarrassing the president and his party and to derail truthful answers demanded by the Terry and Zapata families.

    BTW, what is Obama going to do about assauging the Border Patrol union? They are demanding that Holder apologize for his coverup, turn over all the F&F papers to the oversight committee, provide a truthful account of who was involved and when, and then resign. Turn his back on the union or tell the truth -- what a dilemma for Obama and his staff!
     
    #275 thumbs, Jun 23, 2012
  16. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Ok, so Bush is covering up 6 crimes right? Since you only use executive privilege to hide something that is illegal right? I am just trying to apply your logic here to other presidents and see if you agree.
     
    #276 Sweet Lou 4 2, Jun 23, 2012
  17. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    Lou, please read more carefully. Invoking executive privilege ... is not ... a crime. However, it becomes a crime when a President is trying to hide a criminal act (see Richard Nixon and Watergate).

    IMO, if Obama is using executive privilege to hide a crime or criminal activity, then he should be impeached. The truth is hidden in the documents being guarded by Holder. Why else would Obama be trying so hard to protect Holder for this abortion of a program unless he is trying to hide his direct ties to it? The Terry and Zapata families want to know. The Border Patrol union also wants to know.
     
    #277 thumbs, Jun 23, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2012
  18. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Yes, I understand what you are saying. But the truth was hidden in the documents by Bush - six times he hid the true. Why else would Bush protect the documents except to hide his connection and misdoings regarding the scandals?

    Lots of people wanted to know about the AG's firings and the Valerie Plume leak.

    I don't understand why this time is any different than the six previous ones.
     
    #278 Sweet Lou 4 2, Jun 23, 2012
  19. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    Your only problem is that the Obama Administration is under investigation, not the Bush Administration, not the Clinton Administration. Scooter Libby went to jail in the Plame case. Who in the Obama Administration is going to jail? That is the question and more germane to the thread topic.
     
    #279 thumbs, Jun 23, 2012
  20. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    The Bush Adminstration was under investigation as much as the Obama one is now.
     
    #280 Sweet Lou 4 2, Jun 23, 2012
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