It's sad man. I can't read the comments after the articles anymore because I find it too depressing. It is utterly disgusting and embarrassing to this American.
I thought this kind of put things into perspective. http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/18/muslim-prayers-welcome-at-pentagon-chapel/?hpt=T1 Especially this comment: Bill Kilpatrick If the military can get it – and they're the ones staring death in the face on the front lines of this War on Terror – why can't the rest of the country?
I must admit, I am utterly depressed and dejected by what I've read regarding this mosque. Even people in NY - even friends, think that there are trying to build a mosque ON GROUND ZERO. Just so much misinformation poisoning people's minds. But to read the stuff here, from the conservatives...makes me feel hallow. I might disagree with them on many many issues, and certainly I disagree with many many issues with guys like mc mark and batman jones. But I've never seen them throw the constitution under the bus the way it has been done by the very side that is suppose to be the stalwart defender of the constitution. How can one even be considered a conservative if they don't respect the constitution???? I thought that was their basis for their ideology. But the fact that 70% of Americans are against the mosque....makes me think they are confused about the proposal....I mean, I truly hope so. Because if not, it might be the first time I don't feel particularly proud to be an American in my entire life.
Dude, you could totally go to France. They won't even allow people to wear a burka. Talk about intolerance. The situation regarding the mosque is bad. It should not even be a question whether the Constitution allows it to be built. Yet, we remain the most free and tolerant society in the Western world.
Love it or leave right? If you don't wave a flag, move to France? Why do I feel that's the easy way out to hit someone who is disappointed with their country? So because I expect us to live us to a higher standard, I can't criticize America when it fails to live up to that standard. To be the greatest country in the world, you can't do crap like this. Canada doesn't pull this kinda crap. They are more free and tolerant than we are. Move to France huh? I don't even speak French. My career is here, my family is here, all of my friends is here. This is my culture, this is my home. And yet if I don't like the way my country is behaving, my option is to move to France. You know what, I respect you too much to say what I feel like saying to you right now.
Then come to Canada. You can brush up on your French too.....just in case seriously Lou...THIS is the thing that makes you not proud to be 'merican? This? This is talk show fodder. Filler for the 24 hour news networks. Nothing more. Melodramatic much? Shirley you jest.
I always thought what made this country so great is that more than anywhere else, people are not judged by what they are but what they do with the lot cast to them in life. It doesn't seem to be the case and this incident really breaks that ideal, and I'm really saddened by it. I'd never move to Canada. It's too freakin cold for one thing. I mean, I'm always going to be American, and I'll live, grow old, and die here. I've traveled the world and seen enough of it to know how fascinating it is...and that I wouldn't want to live that far away from what was dear and familiar to me. Nope, I'll always be American, but I guess I'm just a bit more cynical, and while I always knew we were flawed, there was a deep sense that ultimately there is justice in this country, that the ideals hold true and is the common bond between us all. I don't know if that's the case anymore and I guess it's just time to accept it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0 If someone can please post this link as a video here. I dont agree with Keith Oberman very much but seems like he uses good solid facts on this piece. Everyone should take a look! PEACE!
NYC is colder then many Canadian cities. and those Canadian email addy's are pretty sweet....n'est pas?
This was sent to me by one of the most respected posters around here who chooses not to get involved in these discussions himself. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100818/ap_on_re_us/us_ground_zero_mosque_us_muslims Some Muslims question mosque near ground zero NEW YORK – American Muslims who support the proposed mosque and Islamic center near ground zero are facing skeptics within their own faith — those who argue that the project is insensitive to Sept. 11 victims and needlessly provocative at a time when Muslims are pressing for wider acceptance in the U.S. "For most Americans, 9/11 remains as an open wound, and anything associated with Islam, even for Americans who want to understand Islam — to have an Islamic center with so much publicity is like rubbing salt in open wounds," said Akbar Ahmed, professor of Islamic studies at American University, a former Pakistani ambassador to Britain and author of "Journey Into America, The Challenge of Islam." He said the space should include a synagogue and a church so it will truly be interfaith. Abdul Cader Asmal, past president of the Islamic Council of New England, an umbrella group for more than 15 Islamic centers, said some opponents of the $100 million, 13-story project are indeed anti-Muslim. But he said many Americans have genuine, understandable questions about Islam and extremism. In light of those fears, and the opposition of many relatives of 9/11 victims, Asmal said organizers should dramatically scale back the project to just a simple mosque, despite their legal right to construct what they want. "Winning in the court of law is not going to help improve the image of Muslims nationwide," said Asmal, a Massachusetts physician. "You have to win the hearts and minds of the ordinary American people," The project has touched off a national debate over religious tolerance, American ideals and the still-fresh pain of the terrorist attacks. The center's leaders, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, and his wife, Daisy Khan, have a long record of interfaith outreach in New York and beyond. They insist the center will be a voice for moderate Islam and will welcome people of all religions. Supporters are outraged that critics suspect the couple of an extremist agenda. Asra Nomani, author of "Standing Alone: An American Woman's Struggle for the Soul of Islam," said she backs the idea of the mosque in principle but believes the feelings of families who lost loved ones in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks should trump the plan. "I haven't been able to support the building of the mosque right there in the location they've got," said Nomani, an advocate for women's rights and tolerance in the Muslim world. The developers for the project, called Park51, have modeled their plan on a YMCA and Jewish Community Center. The site, two blocks from where the World Trade Center stood, will include a pool, gym and 500-seat auditorium for cultural events for the general public, along with a mosque and a Sept. 11 memorial. Rauf is now traveling overseas on his latest speaking tour for the U.S. State Department. Even among American Muslims who back the idea, there has been grumbling about what they consider the organizers' public relations missteps. A plan to build what would essentially be a local city mosque has now turned into a national confrontation that is roiling Muslim communities nationwide. Rauf's decision to remain overseas without making a statement on the controversy has also caused some frustration. Khan, and developer Sharif El-Gamal of SoHo Properties, which owns the building, have mostly been the public face of Park51. "The total absence of Feisal Rauf has a `Where's Waldo' quality that is maddening in itself," U.S. Muslim writer Aziz Poonawalla, who supports the center, told the blog ordinary-gentlemen.com. "I'm quite capable of defending Rauf against some of the accusations against him, but am not inclined to carry his water for him while he gallivants about the globe." Beyond misgivings about the location, some U.S. Muslims have raised concerns about what the mosque could become after Rauf and Khan retire and inevitably turn the center over to new leadership. Like houses of worship in all faiths, Islamic centers can change over time depending on the worldviews of congregants and the imams who lead them. Nomani said American Muslims have not fully confronted extremism in Islam, which makes her worried that any mosque has the potential to become a haven for those with rigid views. "Yes, there is prejudice against Muslims in the modern day, but also Muslims in the modern day have an extremist problem," Nomani said. Tawfik Hamid, an Egyptian scholar and reformer who said he was once a member of a terrorist group, said he had a "conditional objection" to the proposed Islamic center. He said it was not enough for Park51 leaders to call themselves moderate. Instead, they should "clearly and unambiguously" reject radicalization by opposing specific extremist practices, such as killing apostates, stoning women for adultery, calling Jews "pigs and monkeys" and "declaring war" on non-Muslims who refuse to convert. "This, in my view, will be perceived by radicals in Islam as a defeat for their ideology," said Hamid, senior fellow at the Potomac Institute for Policy Studies. "They think in a very primitive way. If they see a mosque near ground zero, this would certainly be perceived as a sign of victory for al-Qaeda. In the end, they will think, `They are bowing to us.'" Few American Muslims who lost relatives in the terrorist strikes have spoken out, but those who have are also divided. Talat Hamdani, a Muslim whose son Salman, a New York police cadet and emergency medical technician, was killed on Sept. 11, supports the proposal. "I'm not fighting for a mosque. I'm fighting for my rights," she said. By contrast, Neda Bolourchi of Los Angeles, a native of Iran whose mother was on one of the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center, opposes the plan. "I fear that over time, it will cultivate a fundamentalist version of the Muslim faith, embracing those who share such beliefs and hating those who do not," she wrote in a Washington Post op-ed. "To the supporters of this new Islamic cultural center, I must ask: Build your ideological monument somewhere else, far from my mother's grave, and let her rest."
Didn't you post this in another thread? I actually think it would be the other way around. If they DON'T build the mosque near ground zero, it would certainly be perceived as a sign of victory for al-Qaeda. In the end, they will think, 'They are afraid of us.'"
Ok, so maybe Vancouver but it rains all the time there and when you work in Media/Marketing Vancouver is not a great career option for the most part.
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i'd like to know where the funding is coming from. -- The developers behind the Islamic center planned for a site near Ground Zero won't rule out accepting financing from the Mideast -- including from Saudi Arabia and Iran -- as they begin searching for $100 million needed to build the project. The religious organization and the development company behind the center declined to say how much of the $100 million needed to build the facility has already been raised. "We are in the planning stages," said Oz Sultan, spokesman for the center now called Park51. "We have just started the process of fundraising planning." Sultan said it would take three to six months to establish a plan on how to raise the needed capital. He said any fundraising campaign would begin domestically, but he would not comment on whether it would extend overseas or to foreign governments.
maybe, but i just had a conversation with my wife about the same thing. i'd give anything to be able to move to canada, but she won't have it. maybe once our parents are dead. i am sick and tired of this country though.
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