Yes, the ADL should hang their heads in shame for that position. It is exactly contrary to the bigotry they were formed to address.
Did anyone think about how easy it will be to install listening devices in the mosque during construction?
Interesting coming from someone with a user name that is in direct violation of The Ten Commandments.
The problem with listening devices is you have to have people to listen to them on the other end. Do you really want to set up teams of a couple of dozen people each to listen to round the clock chatter at every mosque in America? That gets into "The Lives of Others" territory. And if you were these Muslims, and you actually had something to hide, don't you think you'd suspect that the government might do that and check for the devices? And then have a news conference where you show the devices that you dig out of the wall to the media? The whole idea is very poor from a risk/reward standpoint. To make sense, you'd have to assume that every single Muslim in America is part of a massive terrorist conspiracy.
It's 2 blocks away. How close is too close? How far away is far enough? 5 blocks? 10 blocks? Should no mosques be built in Manhattan? New York City? Where do you draw the line and how do you decide where to draw it? Whatever answer you come up with is completely arbitrary and everybody's going to have a different answer. We have people protesting the building of mosques in Tennessee, Wisconsin, and even California. It seems the problem people have is more with the mosque itself rather than its proximity to ground zero.
Bingo bango. I don't know how any logical American could disagree with this unless they're just bigoted against Muslims.
All this controversy reminds me of the "draw Muhammad day" situation. I believe it was on this board that I read, "Fight for the right to draw Muhammad, and then not do so." This is a very analogous situation. At this point, there are green lights across the board for this Mosque to get built. The point has been proven and established. However, now is the time to reconsider the project. One must wonder whether the real purpose of the Center is lost amongst all of the controversy. I believe that this building will only serve to stir up further anger in the future. However, I do not believe it is a monument to terrorism or anything. If you really want to show the American people that the religion practiced by those monsters on 9/11 is NOT the same religion practiced by the vast majority of the Islamic world, do something else with the money. I would suggest donating the money, in its entirety, to the National September 11 Memorial and Museum. Show America that we (Muslims) want to be part of the effort that helps the nation condemn what happened on that day and forever remember who was lost, rather than draw a line in the sand and cause more animosity.
I don't think that's a good comparison at all. At the end of the day, the act of drawing Muhammad would have accomplished exactly nothing. This building project will actually give NYC Muslims a community center on land they already own. They benefit from the construction of this center.
This is a real test for our leadership. Do they cave into political correctness and popular sentiment and essentially punish all Muslims for the actions of a few. You see many republicans saying Islam is a radical religion and this mosque is support for terrorists. To me, it not only calls for the defense of building a mosque at the site, it demands that it be done so. The only way to fight this kind of intolerance is to face it square on. The mosque now is more than just a mosque, it's a statement of what wins out - the ignorant bigoted feelings even if it's within the majority, or the constitution. This is proof pudding that the Tea Party isn't about the Constitution as well. They abandon it as soon as it involves other people not like them.
***Will not respond.*** ***DANGEROUS THREAD*** If you disagree with the project, you will be forever labeled a bigot. If you defend the project, you are labeled as insensitive to 9/11 victims. No way to win. Bull**** permeates this entire thread.
I agree, except I don't mind being labeled as "insensitive to 9/11" by bigots (who would be the only ones to do so). Personally, I don't care what bigots think.
not a Mosque, not on Ground Zero, and neither the New York Citizens or the Families of 9/11 are really against this thing going up... that being said, the comments by Obama and many posters here are certainly refreshing... how in any possible way could a religious center (call it a mosque, call it a cultural center, call it whatever) in the most diverse part of the nation really cause any problems with people who want to learn about another culture, or for those who want to use the center to strengthen their own views on the subject matter of Islam?
I think its important to build this mosque, as it fight terrorism as much as anything else. Understand that it was not a mulsim attack in 9/11, there were muslims in that building, american muslims who were hurt. Most of alquaeda's targets and talibans? Yea, most are the muslims dying and suffering at their hands. its stories like them that give them success in that they were able to deface the religion adn represent what islam is although they are jsut an extremist group, its as if the kkk represented christianity as a whole. This is a group that is an interfaith center, the center has an interfaith room for other faiths to pray in, its about pluralism and education that has been preached in the quran and shows another facet of islam that has not been portrayed or showed accurately in sensationalist media. This shows that look it wasn't islam vs the west or america, it shows if you read the quran infact it gives an immense amount of respect for pluralism, and most of all for christianity and judaism, referring to them as the people of the book and their rights of religious freedom under muslim rules even at that time, it talks of their salvation as it is believed we all worship one deity...yes this is all in the book, or you can listen to the guy who has some political exclusivist view and who is uneductaed and he makes better tv and let him represent religion. its sad that it has come to this, that the religion is what is attacked the mosque? its those people, those people, those extremist are the ones that are the enemies to not just america, but to islam itself, to muslims, they are enemies to everyone, but they are not who represent us(as a muslim), they are people I consider enemies and kafars(non believers) more than any non muslim, they are my enemies as Americans and my enemies as muslims and yes, there are people on its board condeming them, there are people in pakistna, there are people all over america, who say it loud and proud, yet 'we are not outspoken about it? whose listening, media has a chance to show a regular american muslims like myself or this crazy extremist, what will give them better ratings, and only the educated and informed the self selected group can hear us and they understand this misconception, the rest get it from the media and leads to this sort of opposition, its ashame
This mosque is as important an outlet to the 9/11 community as it is an inlet for Muslims. There is no good reason not to do it. I love how the ADL is all about "what is right" suddenly. Everyone has to be tolerant, be it to a Quran-burning church or a ground zero mosque or a pig fighting neighbour. Thank you Obama.
Of course you will. There is no other reason to disagree with it. "Insensitive to 9/11 victims?" Don't make me laugh. It's in no way insensitive to anyone BUT bigots, whether they were victims or not. As for your suggestion that BS permeates the whole thread, I take that personally and think it was a dickish thing to say. You're not above this debate. If anything, by pretending to 'see both sides,' you're beneath it.
I support freedom of religion wholeheartedly. Its freedom of location thats pretty questionable here. Plenty cities have zoning laws and ordinances indicating you can't just put anything anywhere wherever you want. Not familiar with New York zoning, it obviously doesnt seem to be a factor here. Since the mosque is done within the city laws, have to honor it. I'll use the lame example of putting a Utah Jazz cultural center 2 blocks from Toyota Center. Yes they could within the rules do that. But wouldnt you at least think "Whats the catch here?" Yes the City of Houston will celebrate the symbolic diversity, but would the Utah Jazz celebrate diversity?
I personally oppose the ground zero mosque's construction, however, do I think they shouldn't be allowed by the government to do it? No way. And before we go any further, I oppose the construction of mosques anywhere... and churches... and synagogues... and pretty much the spread of almost any religious institution period... has nothing to do with the color of the followers skin, their country of origin, etc... has everything to do with the tenets of most religions and their affects on society, the abrahamic faiths especially.
