Jeez, I was giving you a chance to save some face, but instead you doubled down on stupidity. 1) What proof do you have of this? 2) So what if he's Muslim? Is it any different better/worse to you if he is Christian, Jewish, etc? Why is the religion of the President an issue to you?
First of all, I don't need anybody to do me a favor and help me save face. I will always say it the way I see it. To answer your # points: 1) I don't particularly have any empirical evidence to support my claim, which essentially renders me a doubled down stupid talking out of his ass like SweetLou, but, I'm too damn lazy right now to prove what might be objectively impossible to be proven. I think only the subjective applies, a muslim father, his relations with Israel, non-action on mickey mouse Hitler Mahmoud regarding his nuclear ambitions. 2) This is quite possibly the most interesting question that I have the pleasure to take a stab at. So what if he's a Muslim? I think it's pretty damn obvious what that curtails if he in fact is a Muslim. I'm not going to go into the notion of support for a nuclear Iran, or anything else that has to do with the fact that our number 1 enemy right now is the muslim/islamic terrorist/extremist. But the question is, what is your conviction and what do you believe is wrong and what is right. Does my belief in Christ make me a better leader than a jew or a muslim? That's a pretty ridiculous question if you think about it, how in the hell do we quantify this? I think history tells us to stay the hell secular and don't mix the two. In my opinion, Muslims have unequivocally failed at this concept via their theological frame of goverments. Is the greatest country in world right now a predominantly Christian nation or a Muslim nation? Would I enjoy more freedoms in a Christian nation which is secular, or muslim country where religion is the law. I'll take my chances with the Christian nation. How can a muslim run a nation predominantly of a religion that he is at war against?
Oh yes, you very much do. So, baseless assumption. Got it. Enlighten us, please. I am unaware of any inherent consequences of having a Muslim president. K, but what does this have to do with having a Muslim president being a bad thing? Um, I agree. However, I think you just called yourself ridiculous. Of course. Most Muslim countries are theocracies, so if I were founding a country, I'd probably want to stay away from Muslim absolutists in my government, yes. But how does this make Barack "the muslim" Obama a bad president? He seems to be one of the most secular friendly presidents we've ever had so far. And like I said, being Muslim does not predispose one to automatically being a theocrat. The greatest countries in the world right now are secular, and not Christian. And even the USA, a majority Christian nation, has, in principle, a secular government. I'll take my chances with neither. Christian nations that have prospered have all done so because of their rejection of theocratic rule and adoption of secular tendencies. Either way, I wouldn't feel any more threatened as if my country was going to slip into a theocratic rule if Obama were Muslim. Wow. Even with my dislike and contempt for Islam, I realize that America is not fighting a war against Islam. To assume that being Muslim automatically puts you at war against the USA and Christianity is one of the most stupid and disturbing things I've ever seen anyone say around here. riiiiiiiiight.
Alright DonnyMost, you agreed with a lot of what I said, and you completely missed what I said about Obama as the muslim leader of our country. I am in no way threatened that this great country would ever fall stupid to theocratic rule, my contention is that Obama cannot successfully rule as a muslim. Explain to me how that is the most disturbing thing you've seen on Clutchfans, that Islam views all others as infidels. Am I making this up?
Dude, have you ever heard of selective interpretation? If you think every Muslim takes a literal interpretation of the Quran, and every Christian takes a literal interpretation of the Bible, and so on and so forth, then you're fooling yourself. If every Christian took a literal interpretation of the Bible, then Obama the Christian would be just as dangerous, if not more dangerous, to have as President than Obama the Muslim.
Hold the f**k on Donny, if you're going to compare contemporary christianity to contemporary islam, you are in fact enforcing what the hell i just said. Fundamentalist islam is still very much a part of current islam teachings, you're saying Christianity is still teaching the crap from the Crusades?
So you think one cannot be a Muslim without a strict, literal interpretation of Islam? I don't get where you're pulling this crap from. But then again, I shouldn't be surprised, as you've already shown a penchant for claiming nonsense out of thin air. I'm one of the biggest anti-Islam proponents on this BBS, but even I know that selective interpretation is part of every religion. Back on topic, you assume that Barack the Muslim Obama would not be a good president (as compared to Barack the Christian Obama, whom we already have). I'm still waiting for you to make a justification for that which doesn't involve broad generalization and sweeping assumptions. You act as if anyone associated with the Muslim faith cannot think for themselves and interpret the religion on their own accord. This is simply not true, for all religions.
So what you're saying is that a muslim in power is equal to or greater than a christian in power? I'm asking you now, and I don't think I made this very clear, yes, I personally think that Islam in many respects is a sham, how can someone as yourself who has "contempt" for islam possibly support a muslim in american office?
I don't support a Muslim in American office. I don't support a Christian in American office, either. Or anyone who claims a religion, for that matter. To claim, though, that one who is Muslim must, by default, have America's worst interests at heart, is just ridiculous. That is the kind of talk that gets people rounded up and thrown into camps.
I understand Donny, that would be no different than racism, but I think there has to be some sort of understanding that there is a religion out there that does not feel very warm towards us. What do you want me to do, you want me to ignore that fact?
You may as well leave the forum. As of this day, you have absolutely zero credibility. You are completely bankrupt intellectually. There is no reason what so ever that any person, left, right or center, should pay the slightest attention to anything you say. I certainly won't. If I don't put you on ignore, it is merely to see what gross, ignorant stupidity you will grace us with next. Oh, and you are a racist. R.A.C.I.S.T. Don't like it? Don't like carrying that moniker around with you here? Retract your statement.
Buddy, the religion is not against you. The extremists who follow the religion are against you. They are against you because (they claim) there is this thing called sovereignty, and they view the US as having violated the sovereignty of Saudi Arabia, which is especially sensitive because Saudi houses the heart of pilgrimage (Mecca). In addition, the other holy site in Islam is in Jerusalem, and they view that the loss of that holy land was achieved and is maintained through American money and weapons. These are political grievances, nothing more. Whether OBL came to these conclusions through some twisted interpretation of Islam is really insignificant, because such an interpretation would not be the norm and, I'm sure you are fully aware, that such an interpretation would not go unnoticed if someone were to dedicate their lives to becoming the president of the US. As a stranger I would just like to advise you to not take things at face value. You've made several factually incorrect statements about Islam, and I can only assume you are repeating things you've heard. Don't listen to me, and don't listen to DonnyMost. I suggest that if you are going to speak and act with such conviction, you should have a more factual understanding of what you're talking about. Just FYI, not all non-Muslims are infidels, and you don't necessarily have to believe in Allah or Muhammad PBUH to be a Muslim. If you can just for a minute conceptualize that your views are so extremist that DONNY is defending Islam, you may see that you need to reign in the theories a little bit. Just sayin. (No offense DonnyMost)
Its not much of a stretch to assume that Obama's skin color, ethnic background, and funny sounding name plays a large part in people like saintcougars thought process to determine his Mooslim-ness.
Because if he looked like an old white guy with an anglo saxon name people wouldn't be so quick to believe he was a Muslim, based on no real evidence.
